Who pays for social care ?

elsien

SVFM wrote: »

Deprivation of Assets, normally applies when the asset is not used by the person themselves but given away to others.
I don't see why the money would need to be given to anyone as a gift. If your nan has this £21,000 she should be able to pay the weekly top up amount from her savings for the better room. IMO she would not be depriving herself of assets, as the money would be spent on herself to give her a more comfortable standard of room/living.
If it was me I wouldn't hesitate to move her into a better room and pay for it out of her savings with her agreement of course). Hope you manage to arrange for a better room for her.

She's not allowed to pay top up payments herself once her savings drop below 23K.
How was the care home chosen? There would normally be two or three on the list to be chosen from, unless bed spaces are very limited.
Does she have capacity around accommodation, is there a power of attorney in place and if she lacks capacity was there a best interests decision and were family consulted ? If she has capacity then there is nothing to stop you and she looking for a closer home - if costs are the same then moving shouldn't be an issue.
If it was a best interests decision then I would be challenging social services as to how they can demonstrate it's in her best interests to move miles away from everyone and everywhere she knows.

Ref finances - if she lacks capacity she can't gift the money. If she has capacity and suddenly starts giving large amounts of money to family then it may trigger a safeguarding about financial abuse, however well meant your intentions.

More importantly as she had a CHC assessment/DST for nursing needs, given the oxygen use? If not, ask for one. If she doesn't qualify for full support she may still qualify for nursing top up may would give her more options.
Independent Age have a very good helpline if you want to get some proper advice about the situation.

badmemory

Elsien is correct, if her savings have dropped below £23k then her own money cannot be used for the extra for the room. Also if she is LA funded she should not be receiving AA.

The sneaky answer is to change the bulbs in her room to daylight & higher than the 'OMG I can't see across the room' bulbs these homes normally have fitted. The care workers won't complain so as long as no one in charge ever goes in there you are fine.

SVFM

From my understanding nan needs to be left with a certain amount a week out of her weekly income for personal expenses (used to be around £24 per week), this money can't be used for top up. However I don't know of any legalisation that states she cannot use her savings to pay for it. Surely it is more important to spend what is left of your life in comfort rather than worry about leaving money in a bank account just to comply. I know if it was me and I was in nans position I wouldn't be worried about what anyone was going to do if I spent my own money, on my own care. Hope you sort something out.

lessonlearned

My mum was in a similar position. I signed the declaration to say I was paying the top up fees, but it actually came out of my parents joint current account, dad was still alive and living in the matrimonial home.

The nursing home never questioned it, neither did adult social Services. They were perfectly happy with the arrangements we made. I think they just needed an assurance that if mum and dad ran out of funds then I would pay.

Re AA that will need to stop, you Will need to inform DWP of a change of circumstances. Basically they will take all of your grans income and leave her with around £23 per week for personal expenses. They won’t touch her savings because it is under the limits.

There is no reason why she cannot draw down her savings for her additional personal expenses, including top up fees. Just be sure to keep all receipts.

Is there a POA in place just in case she loses the ability to instruct you. If she cannot sign a poa instruction then a X plus a thumbprint, verified by a solicitor, would suffice. We had to do this for my husband when he became paralysed.

rheme

NHS funding is known as CHC Funding or Continuing Health Care Funding. The NHS can either provide part or full funding. It is not means tested and, if awarded full funding, will mean that your relative will keep their own pension, you should not need to top up and the local authority will not contribute it will all be paid for by the NHS.

It is quite difficult to get and an assessment should be carried out by a multi-disciplined team (including a member of your relative's family - someone who knows and understands her needs best).

Suggest you google CHC Funding and download the assessment forms and do your own dummy assessment prior to the actual assessment. Think internally and externally and remember that a medicated condition is still a need.

My mum was in a nursing home for 3 years and received full CHC Funding.

The team's assessment will consider your relative's needs under the following headings:

• behaviour
• cognition (understanding)
• communication
• psychological/emotional needs
• mobility
• nutrition (food and drink)
• continence
• skin (including wounds and ulcers)
• breathing
• symptom control through drug therapies and medication
• altered states of consciousness e.g. strokes
• other significant needs

elsien

I'm very sorry to say, but I think fast tracking may apply either because the person is deteriorating quite quickly, or where they have a terminal diagnosis. It's so their needs can be assessed and a support package/palliative pathway put in place more quickly because they are potentially more unwell.

alwaysonthego_2

Fast track funding assessment is different from continuing health funding as it is a medical practitioner that will complete the assessment and there is no need for a MDT. Also fast track funding is end of life funding where life expectancy is less than 6 weeks. Usually all the fees apart from the top up is funded by the NHS. This does not change the level of care that's someone receives this is about who funds the care.

alwaysonthego_2

It doesn't matter what savings someone has even if it is over the capital limit of £23,250 it is not allowed for any top up to come out of a person's savings if they are contracted via a LA for their care home placement. Any gifting of money isn't taken kindly by a LA and will be seen as deprivation of funds. The only way that the top up can be paid by the person is during the 12 weeks disregard of their property or if there is a deferred payment agreement on the property. The LA should have discussed over homes that contract at the La standard cost and if this has not happened you are in your right to request that the social worker requests to panel that the LA pay this top up.

3card

I think you will find the correct term for the top up is actually a 3rd party top up which means that it must be paid by a 3rd party so as others have indicated it cannot be paid from the residents finances.

Again as others have said all your grandmothers income will be taken less the personal allowance of approx £25 per week and used towards her care costs

I never knew about losing the AA when my moms self funding came to an end and then found out that it was up to me to let them know. I did this within a matter of minutes of find this info out and it eventually got sorted.

I'm not that well 'up' on the gifting of money so i cant answer this but would be interested in finding this out myself

Mojisola

Moonmin87 wrote: »

My issue is this: she is a very anxious 97 year old who I love dearly, and I want the rest of her days (which we really don't think will be many) to be happy and peaceful. The home they have identified for her is miles away, in a town where she knows nobody, and the other option is a tiny, dark little room with barely any daylight in our home town. She spends all day in her room at the moment and just wants to be there with her belongings around her.

There is a slightly bigger room with more daylight available but the top up is £120 per week, which we (her family) can't afford.

Before anyone jumps down my throat about this, she has £21,000 in savings, receives state pension, pension credit and attendance allowance

3card wrote: »

Again as others have said all your grandmothers income will be taken less the personal allowance of approx £25 per week and used towards her care costs

You're really only looking at the £21,000 because, as 3card says, her other income with go towards the cost of her room.

Looking at it very pragmatically, someone will inherit whatever lump sum she leaves - could that person cover the cost knowing that they will eventually get it back?

Also, it's worth being a bit pushy about the available rooms - it's inevitable with care homes that other rooms become available.