Storage heaters - most efficient/cost effective

prf5l

Hello

I'm new to the site and would really apprecate some help with choosing the right storage heaters - it's difficult to find advice that isn't from suppliers.

I have a one bed flat, electric only, late 80s construction with what I'm guessing are the original storage heaters. Currently on economy 7: 2 x storage heaters in open plan lounge/kitchen (around 5m x 3m with 4 smallish windows and 1 external wall of 5m); 1 x storage heater in bedroom (going to replace with a panel heater for space reasons, it's a tiny room!) and 1 x storage heater in hall.

At least one of the storage heaters is broken in the lounge, so I'm thinking it's best to replace both (and possibly the one in the hall, as bills have been high from what I'm guessing is poor performance).

For the lounge, I have seen previous threads which suggest it's better to go for 2 x combination heaters (e.g. Duo or even automatics), rather than 1 x Quantum. I am going to get 2 storage heaters in the lounge to replace the old ones but can't decide whether to go for Quantum (2 x in lounge - or is it possible to have 1 x Quantum and 1 x another (cheaper) - or would this make one or both of them overwork?) or would just 2 combination (or even automatic) storage heaters be just as good?

Most reviews of Quantum seem positive, in terms of heat and cost, however, I have seen reviews which say the need for the constant fan means they aren't that much cheaper (and potentially more expensive?!) to run than non-Quantum?

Initial outlay, whilst obviously a consideration, is less important than long term consumption - I don't want to go for a cheap option which is ends up being expensive to run (and lose all their heat by 8pm). And by the same token, I don't want to shell out 50% more on Quantum if it's going to end up costing more to run than another option (or even if it isn't that much better).

Any suggestions much appreciated!

CashStrapped

Just to clarify.....as is often pointed out on this forum....all electric heating is 100% efficient at point of use.

The only thing that determines the cost of what you use is the tariff you are on, the size (or rather power in KW) of the heaters, the time they are on and in the case of E7 storage heaters, when they are used.

Do not be confused into thinking that a quantum heater will be more or less efficient than a standard modern storage heater. It won't.

If you get a combination storage heater, all this means is that it is a panel and storage heater combined into one unit.

A panel heater (either on it's own or part of a combination heater) will only make use of the very expensive day rate. It is pointless and very costly to use a panel heater for any length of time in a E7 property.

The quantum heaters are meant to adapt how much they store based on the ambient background temperature. Basically they are automatically changing the input levels for you. If you feel this is worth the extra cost, then so be it. But, if you set the input correctly yourself, they will not perform any different. The quantum heaters are more about convenience. If you do not regularly adjust the input levels you may indeed find some cost reduction (but consider the extra expense of the heaters).

You may find the most cost effective solution is replacing like for like. Ensure the storage heater is correctly sized for the room and look at the costs for a modern, but standard (just input/output controls) storage heater.

All that may have happened in your old storage heaters is that the insulating bricks that store the heat have degraded. This would mean they no longer store enough heat to last the day. It is hard to say without opening them up.

In addition - ensure you use the controls correctly. Setting the input the night before (based on the weather tomorrow). You also keep the output on 0 (or lowest setting). You only turn the output up (if ever) if you require a short boost in released heat. You must put the output back to 0 before bed.

prf5l

Thanks for your reply.

My main reason for considering Quantum was the heat retention factor, which I understand is superior to most standard storage heaters i.e. it can store more heat for longer, so more heat is available later on in the day - I guess that's what I (incorrectly) termed "efficiency".:)

But for the cost, and Quantum are expensive, (plus I only have an economy 7 feed to the current SH), it seems like I would be better off going for standard (automatic, rather than manual?) replacement SHs?

The current ones are so old (and have been painted once) I don't know what kw they are, is it best to go for the biggest kw (2.5 or 3.4), and have them programmed to not take in as much energy overnight (rather than have 2 x smaller kw on full capacity)?

CashStrapped

I doubt that the Quantum have that much better heat retention properties in reality. I thought their claim that the quantum's are more efficient stems from the automatic adjustment of the input levels. So they supposedly store the exact amount of heat you need for the next day. Although, I do not see how they can factor in a sudden temperature change (not that any storage heater can). As you say you also have to factor in the much higher cost in your calculation.

In terms of sizing, Dimplex have a size calculator to help.
http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/how_much_heat_do_I_need.htm

I'm sure if you rang them, they could help as well, you don't need to buy the units direct from them, just get them to calculate the correct size for you.

I would however stick to the recognised storage heater brands like dimplex. There are some companies who claim they are selling storage heaters but are in fact standard panel heaters. Beware!

lstar337

CashStrapped wrote: »

I doubt that the Quantum have that much better heat retention properties in reality.

I believe the difference is actually quite significant.

CashStrapped wrote: »

I thought their claim that the quantum's are more efficient stems from the automatic adjustment of the input levels. So they supposedly store the exact amount of heat you need for the next day. Although, I do not see how they can factor in a sudden temperature change (not that any storage heater can). As you say you also have to factor in the much higher cost in your calculation.

I think it is actually a combination of better heat retention and more sophisticated controls, that is meant to save the end user. Basically the controls allow you to heat only when necessary, and the better heat retention means that far less heat is lost when you don't need it. The more heat that remains at the end of the day inside the heater means that the next charge cycle can be reduced by at least that amount. I believe there may be a weather compensation sensor in the mix somewhere too.

Now whether all that (at extra cost over a standard automatic charge unit) saves the end user a significant amount remains to be seen. That said, we have had a few people install the system and report on this thread, and the response has been quite positive. They could have been wowed by the tech, or even manufacturers plants, but that's the risk you take.

My advice would be that if money is really tight, get the standard automatic charge units. If you have some money to spare, go for a quantum in your main living space. If you have plenty to spare, go for the whole lot.

One thing that I can say the Quantum does for sure, is ease the transition for somebody who is used to gas central heating. Storage heating is a real shock to somebody who has only had GCH.

matelodave

Even weather comensation can only compensate for the weather in real time - I'm not sure that there are any out there with weather forecasting abilities.

If you get a very cold night and a warm sunny day, the unit will charge up based on the cold night temperature but potentially only release a portion of that heat, conversly a warmish night and cold windy day could end up with insufficient heat stored to do the job.

In my view you are paying a lot of money for convenience and a bit of electronic magic with something like a Quantum. A basic automatic input/output storage heater should be nearly as effective and will cost a lot less.

Ensure that what you get are big enough to do the job, slightly oversized is better than slightly undersized and in a big room two smaller ones rather than one big one will give you a better distibution of heat.

As said above, make sure that you get proper storage heaters, not something like a Fischer (filled with macic clay) or a Rointe (filled with magic oil) which are just extremey expensive peak rate panel radiators, despite what they are decribe as in their advertising blurb.

lstar337

matelodave wrote: »

If you get a very cold night and a warm sunny day, the unit will charge up based on the cold night temperature but potentially only release a portion of that heat

Surely that is the point? The improved insulation keeps that heat stored (rather than wastefully expelling it into an already warm dwelling) until it is required. Until then, the charge periods are either shorter or skipped altogether. This is what saves the money, not leaking heat when it isn't needed.

matelodave wrote: »

In my view you are paying a lot of money for convenience and a bit of electronic magic with something like a Quantum. A basic automatic input/output storage heater should be nearly as effective and will cost a lot less.

Yes, I already said that. I think of Quantum as a sort of 'premium' storage heating solution, much the same way as E10 is an upgrade to E7.

Jlabriola

I have actually completed testing on these radiators as i have a new house an bought rointe radiators for every room in my new 3 bed because i couldn't get gas. I initially thought the cost was going to be very expensive but as it turns out its a actually quite cheap to run these though not as much as gas central heating probably because gas is a quarter of the cost per KW Hour.
I ran a plug in power monitor on one of these radiators with Daytime temp outside was 8 degrees in the day and 1 degrees in the evening.
The way they work is they come off and on a lot. When they are on they use the full power and when off just next to nothing.
Over a a 24 hour period i had the radiator plugged in for 12 hours. The actual time recorded on the meter that it was consuming electricity was only about 2 hrs because it switches off when it senses the room temperature you have set the thermostat to.
What it means is that the radiator was only consuming electricity for a fraction of the time, I calculated that I am saving money running these. The app is great too, I can control them from anywhere

lstar337

Wow! A first time poster boasting about the capabilities of a Roite heater! How refreshing!

Jlabriola wrote: »

I have actually completed testing on these radiators as i have a new house an bought rointe radiators for every room in my new 3 bed because i couldn't get gas. I initially thought the cost was going to be very expensive but as it turns out its a actually quite cheap to run these though not as much as gas central heating probably because gas is a quarter of the cost per KW Hour.

They are pretty, but no different to a £30 job from Argos.

Jlabriola wrote: »

I ran a plug in power monitor on one of these radiators with Daytime temp outside was 8 degrees in the day and 1 degrees in the evening.
The way they work is they come off and on a lot. When they are on they use the full power and when off just next to nothing.

Just like every electrical heater with a thermostat.

Jlabriola wrote: »

Over a a 24 hour period i had the radiator plugged in for 12 hours. The actual time recorded on the meter that it was consuming electricity was only about 2 hrs because it switches off when it senses the room temperature you have set the thermostat to.

Yep, just like any £30 heater with a thermostat.

Jlabriola wrote: »

I calculated that I am saving money running these.

Compared to what?

Jlabriola wrote: »

The app is great too, I can control them from anywhere

It would have to be to make up for the initial outlay!

Jlabriola

Listen, I was giving my honest opinion, which I think everyone is entitled to
I am not an electrician, but I did my best making my own test to see if I save money, simple as that
everyone is entitled to their own opinion and buying choice
I wanted something long-lasting and elegant, which I could indeed control from my phone
This is simply not available in 30 pound heaters..
You should really allow people to give their honest opinion without harassing them!

lstar337

Jlabriola wrote: »

Listen, I was giving my honest opinion, which I think everyone is entitled to
I am not an electrician, but I did my best making my own test to see if I save money, simple as that
everyone is entitled to their own opinion and buying choice
I wanted something long-lasting and elegant, which I could indeed control from my phone
This is simply not available in 30 pound heaters..
You should really allow people to give their honest opinion without harassing them!

Apologies, no harassment intended.

Mostly (but not always) first time posters who sing the praises of these type of heaters, are nothing more than shills. Accounts set up for the sole purpose of promoting their products.

Everyone is free to post their opinions, but using MSE to promote products and make sales is not acceptable.