£67,031.92 is a frightening number indeed....

Treadingonplaymobil

Suffolk_lass wrote: »

Maybe a parent would like to fund the tutor for DC1, or sponsor their swimming lessons?

I have been known to share my Son's netflix if I have ever wanted to watch something but I don't often have time. I always have loads of cheap DVDs, but then I have room to store them so maybe not...

You could use my supermarket alerts so you only buy your bulk stuff when it is on offer

I'm not feeling great (popped a rib cartilage last weekend and now have the inevitable cough so really uncomfortable) so not my best thoughts. I will have a think too

Poor you! I hope you recover quickly. No parental likelihood of funding unfortunately - the only one who could begin to is the one who loaned us the money, and I wouldn't feel ok asking.

Treadingonplaymobil

wishingthemortgaheaway wrote: »

The sticker subscription may need discussing before a Christmas, if they want it to continue, then it's part of their Christmas spends this year, they don't get 'normal' Christmas spends, plus stickers. It has to include stickers for 2019.

Birthdays, I think it's the party 'extras' that mean this is over budget isn't it? I know you bought lots of reusable things this year, straws, cups etc. so, it has to be cheaper next year, and you may have to reduce what the children expect. Maybe just a birthday tea, at home with a couple of friends, not a 'proper' party. You will not be the only parent saying this.

Gas & electric: change suppliers? And get the children to be 'eco warriors' turning off switches, all the usual jazz, you will have more ideas than me. Also, remember, you are coming out of winter and into summer, so monthly averages should be dropping significantly at the moment.

Holiday budget, again, does this include spends for holidays already had, and therefore, the first half of the year is a higher monthly spend and it will reduce as the year goes on?

Tutor: have you seen the BBC documentary on grammar schools (I believe that's why you feel your child needs a tutor) of the four children in year 6 they followed, in episode 1, three had a tutor and those three didn't meet the selective school standard. I thought it was interesting. Familiarization with the type of questions being asked will help to a point, but the assessments are attempting to be 'tot or proof' so perhaps not the best use of time/ money. Get the example books (clearly shown on the documentary several times) see how child does on those, then make a more informed decision about the benefits of a tutor.

Mobile phone..... where are you up to on this? When will you have paid off the handset on your contract? I know you use your phone camera for business, but that doesn't mean you need to upgrade your phone once the handset loan is paid off. Also, if it really is for business, then the business needs to pay for it (same if that's what iCloud is for)

Finally, and I hope I've been gentle as requested but, even with no credit card or parental debt this SOA would still be around £200 a month short (unless you up your income) so, paying off your debt isn't actually going to allow you to live as you want, especially if you are going to take on more debt for the extension that many question whether you can afford. I know part of the extension plan is to borrow from family. Is this the same family who have already loaned you the £20k you are meant to be paying back? Because what if they say 'yes, we'll lend you another £20k, but you've already got £5k of it saved up to repay the last loan we gave you, haven't you? So, I'll just transfer £15k, and use the othe £5k you've got saved to pay me back' - this would scupper plans even more.

The sticker subscription would definitely end at Christmas anyway, unless they wanted it as a gift.. I think I might pre-warn them that the next box will be the last one and stop it. I was thinking if they want it next Christmas I could probably construct something similar myself for 12 months with the available budget - with a budget of say £100 I reckon I could easily do a year's worth of really good ones, which would be cheaper than six months of the subscription. Amazon has bulk packs of stickers, and I actually have half of one left (I bought it to give some to another friend's children who were enormously impressed with my DCs' stickers). Need to think on that, but I do think it needs to stop next month.

Birthdays - you're right, the spend so far this year included reusable extras, but that probably only accounted for £100 of the spend so far. The spend is roughly divided between my own children's birthdays and spending on their friends, family and the couple of other children I buy for. I'm amazed how much of the spend has been on their friends' birthdays, or DH or I chucking a fiver into a group present for someone we know turning 40 or whatever - I would have estimated that at maybe a tenner a month, but it's more like £40. This is something I'm going to sit down and look at in more depth before promising specific cuts, but I feel I can surely reduce this down by at least £50 a month. I've not really been watching it at all.

gas and elec - we had a significant deficit after winter, which is why we need to up it. We are only just in debit now, so I need to look at the division between gas and electricity and work out exactly how much we need to up it to to try to avoid a big deficit again - it may be less than £100. Sainsburys (who we get it through) want the DD to be £140 :eek:. Will also check whether changing suppliers improves things.

Holiday budget - includes spends on holidays we've had, but the big ones in the summer (full weeks' camping) are yet to be paid for, so I think this is accurate.

Tutor - non-negotiable, have done lots of research and am immovable. Will actually cost more than this in September so really I should up it now.

mobile phone - I think you're right that some of this needs to come from the business account.

Parental loan - there is no danger of them doing this, but I am hyper-aware that our budget still doesn't include a repayment. I think it needs to start including something, even if only £25pm, otherwise things aren't going to improve next year when we borrow more.

Treadingonplaymobil

Honeysucklelou2 wrote: »

You have allowed £10 for school trips...I'm not sure how old your oldest is but one thing that I have learned as a parent is that children become more expensive as they get older!! My DD is moving up to secondary school this year and I will have paid over £200 for her Y6 camp ( by July), have her new uniform to pay for and a further camp fee for a Y7 camp that she will have to go on early into the new academic year. I know that you can argue that camps aren't compulsory but they are a rich learning experience. What I'm trying to say is that as your DCs get older that £10 a month may well need adjusting.

There are lots of SATS practice materials available that may well help before needing to go down the tutor route. Some schools do SATS clubs to give extra time to preparing children for the Y6 SATS. Some schools also subscribe to various educational sites such as My Maths or Sumdog. Children have access to logins that can be used at home. This would allow practice of learning objectives.

I know that yr6 will be pricey, but I don't think yr5 (which DC1 will be in next year) will be worse than the current year. I'll worry about the increase in another year!

Treadingonplaymobil

Looking at it objectively, I think I need to address the SOA line by line and decide what is ridiculously awful and needs reducing, and what is just moderately awful and might be managed. Below is a replica of the SOA I posted yesterday, but with individual To Do items to check whether it can be reduced/altered. I will spend some time today looking at those items and considering any further comments and post an updated budget plan later.

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household......... 3
Number of cars owned.................... 1

Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 2893
Partners monthly income after tax....... 250 I've just realise I'm the 'partner' here. Not sure why I have put our incomes this way round :rotfl: . Anyway, this is up for debate as we know, for anything up to £700.
Benefits................................ 192
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 3335

Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 709
Council tax............................. 147
Electricity............................. 100 1. Check Sainsburys account and really nail down how much this needs to be - we are c.£50 in deficit still after the winter despite a £140 DD taken this month.
Water rates............................. 75
Mobile phone............................ 70.94 2. Some of this needs to come from my business. My bill is £50 of this, so I think £25 from my business account would be reasonable.
TV Licence.............................. 12.37
Internet Services....................... 18.99 3. This is terrible internet now the DC are getting older and we are often all using it at once - the speed is a real issue. I would like to be able to go for a faster/more data deal in the next few months.
Groceries etc. ......................... 460
Household/bulk supplies................. 40
Petrol/diesel........................... 260 4. Again, some of this needs to come from the business account. I need to look at a system to log a mileage sum and transfer it over when I use the car for work.
Road tax................................ 16.62
Car Insurance........................... 32.74
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 97
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 57
Buildings insurance..................... 31.84
Life assurance ......................... 16.26
Haircuts................................ 26
Entertainment........................... 150
Holiday................................. 92
National Trust.......................... 10
Christmas............................... 100
Tutor................................... 17.5 5. This needs to be £80 from September.
Emergency fund.......................... 50
Extension savings....................... 289 6. Rather than earning 'extra' for this, I think it should be increased to cover closer to the £5k we need. That would be an increase to £505, which I don't think is affordable, but maybe we could meet halfway and do £400.
YNAB subscription....................... 3
Dentist................................. 5
Birthdays............................... 180 7. This needs a line by line comb through of spends this year. It is ridiculous to be spending £2.1kpa when I am only averaging £300 for each of my own children including their parties. That's over a grand on people who aren't my DC.
Music lessons........................... 15
Sticker subscription.................... 20 8. This needs to stop. I will check when the next one comes out and remind the DC this is it. Another five months is another £100
Pocket money............................ 5
School trips............................ 10
House stuff/maintenance................. 160 9. Another one that needs a line by line dissection.
Children's clothes...................... 120 10. I know this is high, but £40 per child per month for growing children just doesn't seem that insane. I don't really want to cut this.
DH kitty................................ 40
My ktty................................. 16 11. I will continue to budget £20 I think!
iCloud.................................. 2.49
Netflix................................. 5.99
Swimming................................ 34
Cubs and beavers........................ 30
Total monthly expenses.................. 3525.74


Assets
Cash.................................... 1600 This is mostly the buffer in my business account so isn't really available.
House value (Gross)..................... 225000
Shares and bonds........................ 1700 This is just a way of differentiating the cash for the extension held in premium bonds
Car(s).................................. 500
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 228800


Secured & HP Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Mortgage...................... 191971...(709)......2.25
Total secured & HP debts...... 191971....-.........-

Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Barclaycard....................10541.....244.......0 We currently pay £288 per month rather than the minimum.
Virgin.........................2753......28........0
Parental loan..................20000.....0.........0 12. I want to include a repayment here now. Even if it's only £25pm
Total unsecured debts..........33294.....272.......-


Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 3,335
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 3,525.74
Available for debt repayments........... -190.74
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 272
Amount short for making debt repayments. -462.74

Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 228,800
Total HP & Secured debt................. -191,971
Total Unsecured debt.................... -33,294
Net Assets.............................. 3,335

Created using the SOA calculator at https://www.stoozing.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.

So 12 points to work through today, plus anything else that you all raise, and I'll try to post something that makes more sense later.

Honeysucklelou2

Have you shopped around for children's clothes? I know that shoes can be expensive but clothes can be bought for less than £40 per month/child. I tend to buy from F and F in Tescos or George in Asda. Primark can be a source of cheaper children's clothing. My children were given nightwear from Primark, a couple of Christmases ago and the clothing has been really robust and long lasting.

Honeysucklelou2

Can clothes be handed down from one DC to another?

System

I know you have £97 for your car maintenance per month , as it has cost you some money this year . I think you may have touched on this before , how would you finance another car if this one goes kaput ? I only ask as this is my dilemma in the future .

enthusiasticsaver

Lots has already been said about this but a few thoughts.

Presumably this shortfall has been coming from your business account over the last 6 months as I don't think the debt has gone up? Or are you dipping into extension savings? As you say the income for you is a major falsehood in the soa so I am not sure why you persist in putting £250 rather than the actual income you draw. It has been mentioned before that to live the life you want to live your income is needed too and more than £250 a month. You want to build up a buffer of a few months salary for bad months over the summer but are then also using the buffer throughout the year and dipping into it almost like an emergency savings account. I don't know what the answer is except £250 is not enough to cover your outgoings so needs to be set at a more realistic figure.

If your actual income is £700 then this is just enough to cover the shortfall.

The birthdays pot is ridiculous and does need controlling better. You know that so hopefully will address it.

Groceries figure is not as bad as thought although £500 for groceries and household stuff seems a lot. Have you worked out how much buying bulk saves you and is it worth the blips in your budget when you have a month of buying lots of bulk stuff?

Your car is now quite old I think so a more realistic figure for maintenance is needed than £40. You will have a major problem if this has to be replaced as there is absolutely no leeway for more debt unless the extension is put back further.

I know the parental loan needs addressing at some point but £25 is so insignificant in terms of amount borrowed I wonder if it is worth trying to find this in your already overstretched soa.

Are you actually saving a £50 emergency fund monthly?

The clothes figure is high even with 3 children. £1680 just on clothes and shoes over the year seems a lot especially when some of it at least can be passed on to the younger DCs.

I would be wary of going down the tutor route when you obviously cannot afford it. If this is tutoring to get your eldest into grammar school this may end up being a long term commitment which you obviously cannot afford and may put your DC at a disadvantage and under stress if they would struggle to meet the academic level without tutoring. Or are you intending only to use a tutor to get your DS through the 11+?

Treadingonplaymobil

Children's clothes: it looks like for each DC we're looking at roughly:
1) School shoes (or everyday shoes for DC3) and wellies every six months - £40
2) Trainers for the older two for sports every six months - £20
3) Sandals in summer - £15
4) Walking boots once a year (bought for walking hols and worn to death afterwards) - £40
5) School uniform/pe kit/everyday scruffy clothes for DC3 (this is a larger spend for eldest, with top ups for anything that doesn't survive to hand down, and will also be higher for youngest as much gets trashed after 2) - £50 every six months on average.
6) 'special' clothes - so maybe outdoor gear for cub camp or smart clothes for a wedding or whatever - £30 every six months on average
7) waterproof coat - they get handed down where possible but we buy excellent quality ones as they get used for walking hols, £25 every six months on average.
8) Actual clothes - we get a lot of hand me downs, but eldest in particular often needs new stuff at the moment. £10pm on average.
9) Wetsuit and wetsuit shoes - we usually only need to buy for DC1 as either his or friend's DCs hand down to the others. £12 every six months on average (one wetsuit and shoes divided between 3!)

That all comes to £40 per month per dc on average, which is exactly where we've ended up and I can't see any obvious savings. To start spending the time scouring charity shops and eBay for cheaper clothes rather than a quick online order is time I don't have. We do hand down where possible, but lots doesn't survive from DC2 to DC3.

Car: we don't have a car replacement fund. When the car eventually dies DH will have to catch the train (£220pm) and the £140 or so for maintenance and insurance will be saved until we have enough for another rubbish car. I am hoping this can be improved upon once the extension is done and repayments set at an affordable level.

Treadingonplaymobil

enthusiasticsaver wrote: »

Lots has already been said about this but a few thoughts.

Presumably this shortfall has been coming from your business account over the last 6 months as I don't think the debt has gone up? Or are you dipping into extension savings? As you say the income for you is a major falsehood in the soa so I am not sure why you persist in putting £250 rather than the actual income you draw. It has been mentioned before that to live the life you want to live your income is needed too and more than £250 a month. You want to build up a buffer of a few months salary for bad months over the summer but are then also using the buffer throughout the year and dipping into it almost like an emergency savings account. I don't know what the answer is except £250 is not enough to cover your outgoings so needs to be set at a more realistic figure.

If your actual income is £700 then this is just enough to cover the shortfall.

The birthdays pot is ridiculous and does need controlling better. You know that so hopefully will address it.

Groceries figure is not as bad as thought although £500 for groceries and household stuff seems a lot. Have you worked out how much buying bulk saves you and is it worth the blips in your budget when you have a month of buying lots of bulk stuff?

Your car is now quite old I think so a more realistic figure for maintenance is needed than £40. You will have a major problem if this has to be replaced as there is absolutely no leeway for more debt unless the extension is put back further.

I know the parental loan needs addressing at some point but £25 is so insignificant in terms of amount borrowed I wonder if it is worth trying to find this in your already overstretched soa.

Are you actually saving a £50 emergency fund monthly?

The clothes figure is high even with 3 children. £1680 just on clothes and shoes over the year seems a lot especially when some of it at least can be passed on to the younger DCs.

I would be wary of going down the tutor route when you obviously cannot afford it. If this is tutoring to get your eldest into grammar school this may end up being a long term commitment which you obviously cannot afford and may put your DC at a disadvantage and under stress if they would struggle to meet the academic level without tutoring. Or are you intending only to use a tutor to get your DS through the 11+?

You're right about the income, which is why I am doing this. Yes, I have been funding from my business account. The sacrifice when that hasn't covered it has been the savings pots in our personal account (Christmas, holidays etc), not my business account buffer or the extension savings. Of course, if I up my income, my lovely three month buffet becomes a one month buffer, as I only have around £1,400 saved, but I just have to deal with that.

Bulk buying on the whole doesn't exactly 'save' money. It enables us to buy eco stuff for the same price as buying non-bulk regular non eco stuff. I had no idea at the start of the year how much we spent on bulk stuff, so I'm hoping now we've kept a separate record for six months this won't cause blips as we can budget separately for it.

Car - i agree and I think this needs to be increased to £100 per month, and any extra can go towards a new car.

The £50 emergency fund has been used for emergencies each month, so it's been saved but then used. We certainly aren't saving faster than we're using it, although it has been used for things like emergency plumber this month, toward a huge car bill in feb etc. Not sure how to avoid this.

Tutoring is for one year to get the DC through 11+ and then stopped (although will be repeated for the others if appropriate). I wouldn't contemplate it if any of the DC couldn't cope with grammar demands once there - no intention of tutoring throughout grammar school, that would be madness.