Buying house with no Building regs for loft - how safe?

MattMorgan

We have found a house we wish to purchase with a loft conversion. We understand that there are no building regulations certificates for the loft conversion.

Apparently it was done over 10 years ago and as a result the council have said that they will not inspect it. However

when we asked the vendor why building regulations was not applied for at the time - we were told that the vendor ran out of money.

This leads me to believe that there may have been some significant changes required to make the loft compliant.

Is there any way to identify if BR was applied for and if not granted why? I also understand that contacting the council directly
may lead to us not being able to obtain indemnity insurance in future.

Our primary concern is safety - I understand we can get a structural survey but I also understand many of the applicable
building regulations are concerned with safety e.g. being able to escape from a fire and having safe electrics for example and I'm not
sure a structural survey will tell us this?

My question is how can we identify what it would take to make it compliant and how can we determine the house as a whole is still structuraly sound? Unfortunately we do not know any builders.

Thanks

MM

AnotherJoe

If your concern is safety, then instead of rooting about in documents which likely wont tell you what you want to know, which is "is it safe?" and may in any case be wrong (the documents may say it has such and such a type of support beam but suppose it doesn't?) , pay a qualified person to check if its safe !

Someone will be along soon to say what sort of qualified person you want.

somethingcorporate

I agree - ten year old application documents tell you nothing.

Get a suitably qualified surveyor in to check it out.

kinger101

The surveyor will most likely say "loft room may not be installed to building regulations".

I'd just work on the assumption the loft is a non-habitable room if and when you make your offer.

davidmcn

A structural survey will tell you if it's structurally sound (which would be my main concern).

An electrician will tell you whether the electrics are in order.

Your own eyes will tell you whether there's a fire door.

The fact it's been there for over ten years without falling down, spontaneously combusting or being condemned by the building inspectors ought to give you a certain level of reassurance.

Is there a building regulations certificate for the rest of the house?

Cakeguts

You may have to spend a lot of money sorting out the loft room. So when you offer on the property treat the loft room as just storage space rather than an extra room you can use. If the current owners want to sell the house with a loft conversion they should have made sure that it met building regulations by doing the necessary work on it.

So if for example this is a 2 bed house with a loft room you need to make sure that your offer isn't based on the value of a purpose built 3 bed house. Your offer needs to be based on the value of a 2 bed house with a boarded loft space for storage only.

Doozergirl

No. Just because a loft conversion doesn't have BC sign off, it doesn't mean it is not a loft conversion without value.

Most houses don't have BC sign off, they are still houses. We can't go around offering to take them off people's hands for free.

The OP should be satisified that it is structurally sound and warm before they purchase. If it is, but there are items that they want to upgrade, then they could negotiate on than point.

If it isn't sound, doesn't comply with anything, then it has no value. But there is no blanket statement to make.

To meet current regs:
The ceiling joists must be capable of holding the weight of a room. Most ceiling joists weren't put in to hold a room and need to be upgraded.
Insulation needs to meet current u-value requirements.
Loft conversions should have a headheight above stairs of 2 metres. 1.9 can be acceptable.
The staircase should be permanent.
There should be windows.
There should be a fire door separating the loft from the rest of the house. This can be at top or bottom of stairs.
There should be fire doors on all habitable rooms through the house to provide a protected stairwell all the way though the house to an exit door.
If the kitchen is open plan to the stairs then a mist fire suppression system should be in place (or a fire door reinstated on the kitchen)
Hard wired smoke alarms through the house.

I doubt that's all, but that's off the top of my head. The building regulations documents for loft conversions are all available to read online.

Most of this can be checked by a layperson. But a look over by a structural engineer would be the first point of contact.

MattMorgan

Hi guys,

Thanks for the responses so far.

Davidmcn I wasn't aware a certificate would be needed for the rest of the house I thought it was only required for the loft conversion unless you mean other such modifications such as an extension? The house has been extended but I'm not sure if there is a building regulations certificate for that either. Is that likely to pose further problems? There is a record of planning permission for the extension which is approx 12 years old.

Our offer will reflect that the room is technically uninhabitable (it's a 3 bed incorrectly advertised by the estate agent as 4), especially as I've spoken to a few building insurance companies and they have told me the level of cover they will provide will only cover a 3 bed (although the whole house is covered any payout will be akin to that of a 3 bed not 4).

MM

martinsurrey

Doozergirl wrote: »

No. Just because a loft conversion doesn't have BC sign off, it doesn't mean it is not a loft conversion without value.

Most houses don't have BC sign off, they are still houses. We can't go around offering to take them off people's hands for free.

The OP should be satisified that it is structurally sound and warm before they purchase. If it is, but there are items that they want to upgrade, then they could negotiate on than point.

If it isn't sound, doesn't comply with anything, then it has no value. But there is no blanket statement to make.

To meet current regs:
The ceiling joists must be capable of holding the weight of a room. Most ceiling joists weren't put in to hold a room and need to be upgraded.
Insulation needs to meet current u-value requirements.
Loft conversions should have a headheight above stairs of 2 metres. 1.9 can be acceptable.
The staircase should be permanent.
There should be windows.
There should be a fire door separating the loft from the rest of the house. This can be at top or bottom of stairs.
There should be fire doors on all habitable rooms through the house to provide a protected stairwell all the way though the house to an exit door.
If the kitchen is open plan to the stairs then a mist fire suppression system should be in place (or a fire door reinstated on the kitchen)
Hard wired smoke alarms through the house.

I doubt that's all, but that's off the top of my head. The building regulations documents for loft conversions are all available to read online.

Most of this can be checked by a layperson. But a look over by a structural engineer would be the first point of contact.

exactly,

If someone asked for a building regulations completion certificate for my house they would be waiting for a while, its an 1880 Victorian place, but I can guarantee that it IS a house with habitable space.

A structural engineer who is correctly instructed not "do a survey of the house", but "report on the structural integrity of the loft conversion and its compliance with current building regulations with particular regard to structure, means of escape, fire prevention, and insulation"

and you'll get a good answer.

davidmcn

MattMorgan wrote: »

Davidmcn I wasn't aware a certificate would be needed for the rest of the house I thought it was only required for the loft conversion unless you mean other such modifications such as an extension? The house has been extended but I'm not sure if there is a building regulations certificate for that either. Is that likely to pose further problems? There is a record of planning permission for the extension which is approx 12 years old.

Any building work requires to comply with building regulations, whether that's the construction of a whole house or alterations to it. My (slightly tongue-in-cheek) comment was aimed at the popular belief that loft conversions are somehow special and even historic conversions need all the paperwork or should be treated as uninhabitable - but if the rest of the house (or another extension etc) doesn't have paperwork either then why are you assuming that it's habitable?

Doozergirl

Of course an extension needs building regulations certificate.

Houses need building regulations certificates when they are built but most housing stock predates our current system of national regulations which was established in 1986.

Building Control is there to check the structural stability and health and safety compliance of all building work that affects the structure of a house.

If you speak to an insurer about anything and tell them you're not sure about something, they will shy away from covering. You've just phoned insurers and told them that you don't have a clue about this loft conversion - why would you expect an answer other than the one you received? You actually don't know about the house or the extension either!

My house was built in the 1930s. It does not have any building regulations certificate, like any other house built at that time. It has a 1970s extension. I think that actually may have a building control record, but I can tell you now that if something dreadful happens to my house, they won't be asking for the certificates.

The windows didn't have BC sign off or the knock through in the lounge. We had the house checked by our structural engineer.

Both my 1930s house and 1970s extensions are woefully inadequate compared to current regulations. But they are sound and insurers have to cover it because there would barely be a house in this land that would be covered if everything required sight of a building control completion certificate.

Insurers are not going to cover blatantly inadequate workmanship that causes a problem, but that is why people have surveys. You establish safety.

You need to establish the condition of that conversion before you could possibly deem to decide what value it has.