Builder asking for more money after we just agreed to pay extra

caffsean

Hello, we need some advice around how we stand with this please?

We've bought our first house, it had render missing so part of our mortgage offer was to have it re rendered. We had 5 written quotes and chose our builder (he was the 2nd most expensive having quoted £5160 and said the work would take 2 weeks), we saw previous work, he's worked on a friends property, we liked him and felt comfortable with him doing work on our home.

We asked if there was any negotiation room in his quote and if he could put right 3 tiles that had slipped on the roof w hade noticed ; he came back to us with the price of £5000 inc the 3 tiles, so we agreed this price in writing. We borrowed £5500 just incase of any issues (although hadn't told him that).

We paid a deposit of £2500 and work started, scaffolding arrived and he told us he'd booked that for a month just incase of bad weather. Most of the old render came off ok but some was more difficult and took chunks of the blocks with it. We told him if there was another way of doing it then don't worry about taking off the render (it was a whole panel(?) at the apex of the roof) to just match it in with the paint at the end - he said this could be done by grinding down the front of the render and re-skimming so it would all match perfectly - we said to to do that then. However they carried on trying to take it off for 2 weeks but then decided to leave it on there and go with the plan above.

I need to point out that work started on the 23rd December, they haven't done full days most of the time and were 10 or 10.30 to 2 or 2.30pm or even here because of bad weather or just didn't turn up and we had to message him to see where he was (an emergency somewhere else or he was unwell etc so neither of them arrived).

We then paid another £1500 as he said he was about 1/2 way through and needed it for paying wages; I paid it straight away.

19th Jan he came to us and said that due to the problems with the render not coming off and repairing the blocks he's 6 days behind and needed another tonne of sand, some cement, the additives and to pay his mate the extra 6 days wages. Because of that he would need an additional £500; that would more than cover all this and would be all that's needed to totally finish the job. We agreed as no one could have seen the issues with that render and although did question why he carried on when we said to just leave it. Anyway we paid a further £1000 on Friday 20th leaving the additional £500 to be paid on completion which he told us would be Friday 27th Jan.

He then didn't turn up on the Sat 21/ Mon 23/ Tues 24th Jan, we again had to contact him with no replies initially, I messaged again saying that we needed to know what was going on and asked if he could confirm that the work would be finished by 3rd Feb (giving him an extra week); he then called my husband and said he'd be there on the Wednesday. Wednesday morning he messaged to say he'd an accident in his van and would be able to make it that day, (turns out that he's knocked the light and just needed to gaffer tape it back in) however we've since found out that he was actually on another job the Sat/Mon/Tues!

Needless to say the work wasn't completed by 3rd Feb; he text messaged my husband on 2nd Feb saying that he was now 9 days behind and needed to buy the extra materials so will need another £243 on top of the £500 plus £150 of that released to finish the job by Friday 10th Feb.

We have refused to pay the additional £243 quite honestly because we don't have it having borrowed the initial amount but also because he quoted us for the job and we'd already agreed to pay the £500 and that he has told us this covered all of those things already; also he's not turned up on different days to do other jobs etc. He said he was sorry about the whole situation but that he's running at a loss due to being 9 days behind; we've said we understand that however whilst we'll release the £150 (and have) we're not able to pay the extra £243.

We have no issues with the actual work he has done it's the time management and giving us the written quote and upping it etc.

I've kept everything he's sent us along with the original quote, which also says there would be a skip to remove hardcore which didn't arrive and he's going to be leaving on site now as we're going to be having a patio at some point when we can afford it so surely that's a saving for him too?

Sorry for such a massive post we're just really unsure about this having never had building works done before. He's now not turned up today and is ignoring our messages and calls to see what's is going on.

Thank you.

cattie

Usually a quote is for the whole cost of work, in some cases with materials paid as extras, which is what it possibly sounds that you have been given. Whereas an estimate gives people a rough idea of the cost but could work out more expensive depending on any probs that might occur & could include/exclude cost of any materials, which would be stated.

I don't think I'd be too happy paying your builder more as it seems he has caused the delay himself & if the amount you've already paid was said to cover everything that would be needed then surely he has misled you?

caffsean

Thank you cattie.

The original quote he gave us, as he put it, was "all in, not a penny more not a penny less".

However, like I said, we thought that as no one could have known how difficult that render was at the top that it was fair to pay the extra £500 that he's asked for.

We're just worried that we were being unreasonable in refusing to pay the further £243. He's not made any contact with us today and no ones turned up either so we're considering contacting citizens advice as he's had £5150 so far with rendering to be done to the back and gable end and the finishing of the painting.

alumende27

I assume this falls under the "off-premises" part of the consumer contracts (information, cancellation and additional charges) regulations 2013.

The first applicable regulation is paragraph 10.1(a), which stipulates that the trader “must give the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner”.

And from schedule 2 - "(g) where applicable, all additional delivery charges and any other costs, or where those charges cannot reasonable be calculated in advance, the fact that such additional charges may be payable."

Pertinent parts of part 2, Chapter, Regulation 10 of the regulations clearly state that:

10.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by an off-premises contract, the trader—

(a)must give the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner
...

10.—(4) If the trader has not complied with paragraph (1) in respect of paragraph (g), (h) or (m) of Schedule 2, the consumer is not to bear the charges or costs referred to in those paragraphs.


So, he has to tell you what you will be charged, and he can't enforce any demand for payment which aren't in the contract. And he has to give you that contract.

Just to make that even more explicit, paragraph 12 states that the trader must give the consumer either a copy of the contract or, if the contract has already been provided, confirmation of the contract, and that such confirmation *must* include the information listed in Schedule 2. And, crucially, paragraph 12.2 says that:

"The copy or confirmation must be provided on paper or, if the consumer agrees, on another durable medium"

Email is considered a durable medium, so you can agree to receive the contract via email if you want.

I'd suggest speaking to Citizen's Advice if you're unsure.

caffsean

Thank you for this, we've made contact with Citizens advice.

I don't totally understand everything in your reply although he hasn't actually give us the details in writing, except for the original quote, he's just asked for an extra amount of money twice.

what's concerning us is that he told us the £500 covered the additional materials (which don't appear to have been bought or arrived yet) and has now said that the £243 is to cover the additional materials.

he's still not replied to us yet so I will wait and following what citizens advice tell us.

ess0two

He's had 95% of the money, it just aint worth him finishing it at a loss, I suspect.
Think you should have withheld more ££