Extension - Choosing a builder

GBX_

Hi, bit out of my league so all advice appreciated.

I've had detailed plans drawn up by an architect for a single storey rear extension and half garage conversion.

Everything has been approved and I've approached 3 builders for estimates.

The results are below:

Builder 1: 48k plus VAT: Estimate in email form with a list of jobs essentially.

Builder 2: 52k plus VAT: Estimate in email form with a list of jobs essentially.

Builder 3: 58k NO VAT PAYABLE : Detailed break down from quantity surveyor.

Re builder 3 - I cannot find the company details on companies house, however the main guy is registered as owning an active building company in a different name. Is this a problem? He comes recommended to me.

What should I do now exactly? Pick one and then request an actual quote? I just don't want to get taken for a ride. Knowledge is power and all that.

Thanks in advance.

System

You've to worry about someone not charging VAT but turning over most of the threshold in one job...
Ask the builders if you can go and see other jobs they have completed recently, speak to those clients.
Ask your architect to speak to the architects for those other jobs too.

If all the quotes are comparible, where are the differences, have they allowed provisions sums, a contingency and retention?

At the end of the day it really comes down to which one you trust the most to deliver

Doozergirl

£58k with no VAT?! Can you see the glaring difference between that and the other quotes? No way can he not be VAT registered and running a legitimate business. Nice work being more expensive and not VAT registered.

Do you think a list from a quantity surveyor is more impressive?

Your 'results' list should also contain things likenhow helpful they are, what their previous customers say and how lovely the previous jobs you've been to is.

Doozergirl

For some reason I can't edit my posts on my phone. I'm thinking about the quantity surveyor quote and how you seem to have put that as a comparison point.

I'm not saying this is the case, but even though it looks professional, getting someone else to price your jobs isn't always a great sign of being able to manage money and know how much your jobs cost. Combining that with not being VAT registered, who is balancing the books in that business?

Hoploz

There's not much to choose between the prices. I would consider how easy I found them to talk to (contactable? Listened to what you want to do?) and timescale - when they can do your work. And definitely visit other clients.

I'm going through the same process just now. I've found a couple of builders from houses locally I've seen them working at in the past year. Once the quotes are in I'm going to knock on the doors and see how the homeowners actually found them to work with. (I did this for my last project 9 years ago too.) I've tried to choose the ones who look like they've left the houses looking nice when they've gone!

keith969

Number 3 would be ringing alarm bells for me. Why take the risk when you have two other seemingly ok quotes?

Furts

You say detailed plans but do not mention a specification, Buildings Regulations, specialist drawings, roof truss design, kitchen layout, heating, electrics ... Basically what have you got for builders to price against?

Then if information is lacking quotes will vary.

Add to this a glaring discrepancy. You may have used the wrong terminology, but your post is worded as comparing two estimates with what one assumes is a quote.

I disagree with folks who question the use of a quantity surveyor. I know many contractors who have happy relationships here and it works all round. Not all contractors want to be spending time and energy pricing jobs, and doing valuations.

Doozergirl

It's not the QS alone, it's in conjunction with not being VAT registered that bothers me. It suggests administrative flippancy to me.

J_B

There hasn't been a misunderstanding has there?

QS does the quote so says the price doesn't include VAT, but maybe words it incorrectly??

GBX_

Wow, lots of good replies there. Thanks!!

To clarify some points.

1. All 3 prices are given as 'ESTIMATES'.
2. My plans are incredibly detailed. Architect is very anal.
3. I emailed builder 3 and he replied saying "There is NO VAT to pay on that company. ???

I am not suggesting an estimate from using a QS is any better than one without, but it's just an added factor to consider.

My concern is with 'estimates'. I've never had any building work done and from the reading I've done everyone says that getting a 'quote' is better???

Builder 1 also mentions a 'minor domestic works contract'. Is this a good idea?

Thanks for the info

Doozergirl

Builder 3 should be VAT registered. The threshold is £83,000 turnover. If you're paying him £58k for perhaps three months work, even if they only have one customer at a time, they are going to hit the threshold in that year. £83k turnover as a company taking on extension projects is not going to pay the owner a living wage.

If he has another company, and is saying 'this one doesn't attract VAT' then that rings even more bells. You cannot open companies doing the same type of business to individually turnover less but collectively turnover more in order to avoid VAT. It's illegal.

At the moment, this guy is more expensive than one builder and effectively more expensive than the second as builder number 2 will be giving a substantial portion of your fee to HMRC.

Builder 3 may build you a lovely extension, but if he ends up having a huge bill or folds businesses when the VAT man comes knocking, you're running a risk.

Quotes are definitely, definitely better than estimates, but it might be that you need to tie down all of your specifications and requirements and agree to take the person on before you can tie them down to one.

A builder suggesting the contract is great.