Panel heaters & Economy 7

Sarah_81

Hi everyone

As some of you know from a previous thread I am planning on buying the flat I rent. It is a 2006 built 2 bed apartment, double glazed, all electric. I have a fab immersion heater (Pulsacoil A class) that heats the water overnight and still piping at 9pm. Never had to boost or turn on in the day. However, the place is fitted with panel heaters throughout and is on the Economy 7 plan.

3 weeks after moving in I got a letter saying it was being forced sold, I've got an offer accepted for a great deal so I don't want to let the panel heater situation put me off as this can be changed once I own it. The flat ticks all the other boxes. I've lived in electric only before and honestly, I think I prefer it to gas.

With Economy 7 and panel heaters it is not working out for a warm winter. Admitedly wheen I first moved in the heating was on all the time until I realised how many units it was burning through. Now trying to be sparing and using on average 12 day units. Only about 5 night units used as it's pretty much just the immersion and the fridge using these units. I have looked at ways to rectify and my first thought was just to go to a single tariff, and if I was only going to be here a year or so I would. However since I may well be here 10+ years I am trying to think more long term. A single tariff would only save me about 30p a day and I'm still stuck with the expensive panel heating. I plan on replacing the panel heaters 1 by 1 due to cost, with Dimplex smart storage heaters. They will make the most of the night units and also keep the flat considerably warmer. They are also fairly pricey so it will be a slow process as I live alone so have limited money left at the end of the month, but is achievable.
I do not want GCH for personal reasons. I've had electric central heating with an electric boiler before; bills were reasonable but the boiler was always breaking so I have to think about upkeep costs too.

I have heard good reviews about the Dimplex Quantum smart storage heater so this is my first choice. I will start on the lounge and then the hall.

At present I have 2 panel heaters in the lounge, another in the hall, 1 in the spare room, 1 in my bedroom, 1 in the kitchen and 2 small fan heaters in the bathrooms. I've never used the fan heaters and only use either 1 lounge heater or the hallway one to let the heat circulate a little. Then they get turned off and the one in my bedroom goes on for an hour or so (I cannot sleep if I'm freeing)

Since I found out about being on Economy 7 and having the panel heaters, I've brought my average day use down from about 20 units to around 12. Until I can get the heaters replaced it will be a rationing scenario but I can live with that.

Does my plan sound sensible? If anyone can think of another way please let me know.

Sarah_81

Also, just to add, my units this week so far

29/1/17 - 14 day 3 night
30/1/17 - 12 day 6 night
31/1/17 - 15 day 3 night (2 of us in the flat this night)
1/2/17 - 9 day 8 night (insomnia and feeling cold)

Compare this to my neighbour, who used 27 day units yesterday and 33 the day before that!

To be honest I don't think mine's toooo bad; in winter with panel heating and being on annual leave this week.

If anyone else has the dreaded panel heater + Economy 7 situation I'd love to hear what you're average units are to compare.

Cardew

Ignoring the Economy 7 v 24/7 tariff, if you are using around 20kWh(units) a day in winter and find that adequate for heating and hot water, then you are a very low user. probably between 5,000 and 6,000 kWh a year.

That on a good 24/7 tariff will cost between £600 and £700 a year.

Getting the Dimplex quantum storage heaters and an Economy 7 tariff will save a little in the winter, but because the daytime rate is higher will save little - if anything - when heating is not required.

Overall I doubt if storage heaters will save £100pa - probably less. Consider that against the capital cost of the Dimplex heaters and possible wiring changes in the flat, and you may be better off with your present system on a 24/7 tariff.

Sarah_81

Hi

Yes I did consider switching from Economy 7 to a standard tariff, but in all honesty the heating is barely on at the moment due to the expense of the panel heaters, so using a hot water bottle and from about 7pm I'm really cold. I'm only turning the panel heaters on for an hour or so, which gives a little warmth but not as much as I'd like, which is why I was thinking in the long run the storage heater would be the best long term plan. We have a family friend who is an electrician so hopefully it won't cost me an arm and a leg to get it fitted and it should be cheaper to run.

Like you say it won't make a difference in summer, but I would hope to recoup some of the cost over the 10+ winters I am here.

Swings and roundabouts really but having the flat warm in winter rather than sitting cold with the panel heaters does appeal

lstar337

It's a good plan. Save up and get your main room sorted first. Over specify the heater as much as you can afford so you will always have plenty of cheap stored heat. Because quantum heaters are so well insulated they will lose less heat when you don't use/need them. That unused heat is then rolled over to the next day meaning a shorter charge period (saved money).

Storage heaters for the other areas are down to your personal needs. Little used rooms tend to not benefit so much from storage heating, but you may find that you prefer them for a gentle background heat.

Use your panel heaters as little as you can bare to save cash, and think about setting a timer to give a 'full blast' period right before your electric switches from 'off peak' to 'peak'.

Insulate where you can such as thick curtains and such.

Look at where you can shift your 'peak units' to 'off peak'. When I had E7 I used to do washing and drying during the off peak hours (be careful using some appliances while sleeping), and use the electric shower early too.

Sarah_81

Hi

Thanks for the reply, unfortunately my panel heaters don't have a timer, just an on/off button I have to manually press (VERY basic) and a temp dial that goes from 0-6 so I have no way of programming them. The wall timer is just for the immersion heater (which works great, I am slightly in love with it)
I generally have the heaters at temp level 2 or 3, depending on how cold the room is. I now only turn them on later in the evening, when even the layers and hot water bottle just won't cut it. I try to use only 1 at a time - the hallway one I try to use around 8pm and leave all the doors open to try to get the heat to circulate, and then I turn that one off and the lounge one on. That again stays on 30mins to an hour. Then that gets turned off and I turn the bedroom one on for a while so I'm not laying there freezing.

This is when I use the most of the day units. Until then I can use 3 units all day, then all of a sudden it shoots up to 12 or so used.

I suppose 12 day units in mid-winter with panel heaters (and no gas) really isn't that bad, but like I say to get my usage down to that I am literally sat shivering.

lstar337

Sarah_81 wrote: »

Hi

Thanks for the reply, unfortunately my panel heaters don't have a timer, just an on/off button I have to manually press (VERY basic) and a temp dial that goes from 0-6 so I have no way of programming them.

Are the plugged into a socket, or wired through a spur? Either way you can get programmable timers for each.

Sarah_81 wrote: »

I generally have the heaters at temp level 2 or 3, depending on how cold the room is. I now only turn them on later in the evening, when even the layers and hot water bottle just won't cut it. I try to use only 1 at a time - the hallway one I try to use around 8pm and leave all the doors open to try to get the heat to circulate, and then I turn that one off and the lounge one on. That again stays on 30mins to an hour. Then that gets turned off and I turn the bedroom one on for a while so I'm not laying there freezing.

Something else to consider is that we haven't had a proper cold winter for a while now. If you are suffering now, then your heaters are not going to cut it during a real winter.

Sarah_81 wrote: »

I suppose 12 day units in mid-winter with panel heaters (and no gas) really isn't that bad, but like I say to get my usage down to that I am literally sat shivering.

Another reason to note what I said above.

NSH can rival GCH in terms of cost, and should give you continuous heat between charge periods.

Another note, shop around on your tariff. Make sure you are on a good deal.

Sarah_81

lstar337 wrote: »

Are the plugged into a socket, or wired through a spur? Either way you can get programmable timers for each.

Something else to consider is that we haven't had a proper cold winter for a while now. If you are suffering now, then your heaters are not going to cut it during a real winter.

Another reason to note what I said above.

NSH can rival GCH in terms of cost, and should give you continuous heat between charge periods.

Another note, shop around on your tariff. Make sure you are on a good deal.

The panel heaters are hard wired into the wall, have a wall socket and then just a manual on/off button and temp dial. I could get timers and will see about prices in the meantime before I can get the heater(s) replaced.

I was thinking just that about the mild winter, the NSH will be fitted before next winter. I would do it now, but I am not going to pay £800+ to replace the lounge heater before I even own the place. My offer was only accepted last week so until I am the owner I won't be shelling out almost a grand to fit the NSH. As soon as I sign on that line though I will be ordering it!

My tariff isn't too bad; I've seen worse! My day rate is a little over 16p and my night rate just less than 6p. My standing charge is 18p a day.

lstar337

Sarah_81 wrote: »

The panel heaters are hard wired into the wall, have a wall socket and then just a manual on/off button and temp dial. I could get timers and will see about prices in the meantime before I can get the heater(s) replaced.

Yeah, you can get spur timers, but keep an eye on the costs. Given that you will be upgrading next winter (possibly), and this winter is almost over, you may find they are not really needed.

Sarah_81 wrote: »

I was thinking just that about the mild winter, the NSH will be fitted before next winter. I would do it now, but I am not going to pay £800+ to replace the lounge heater before I even own the place. My offer was only accepted last week so until I am the owner I won't be shelling out almost a grand to fit the NSH. As soon as I sign on that line though I will be ordering it!

Yeah, I would just save up through summer and get it fitted just before winter.

Sarah_81 wrote: »

My tariff isn't too bad; I've seen worse! My day rate is a little over 16p and my night rate just less than 6p. My standing charge is 18p a day.

Looks 'OK' but I think I would still check a comp site to make sure you are getting the best deal.

Sarah_81

Hi
Thank you for the advice - I'm not sure I can switch yet as I've only been with my supplier for 6 weeks.

There is also a issue with my opening reading which is my fault as I didn't realise it was a duel meter when I set the account up (before I moved in) My current supplier has therefore been given estimated readings from the previous supplier. These estimated readings are higher than what they should be, tho not by much. It was only when I went to give a new reading online after 6 weeks here I noticed the 2 rates, and the opening readings being a little higher than they should be.

I contacted EDF who explained what happened and I accept full responsibility for not giving the 2 readings. All I had was the 'total' which is all I've ever needed before.

I don't want free electric, I like to pay for what I've used I now have to take 7 day readings so they can calculate my average and work out what my opening readings *should* be. Not ideal, but the best they can do now. I'm glad I caught it, as if I'd left it another couple of months I'd have gone past what the previous supplier estimated and wouldn't even have noticed.

Because of the daily readings I am taking, I am - for the first time - actually aware of my usage.

My estimated readings on the account are
Rate 1 = 12400
Rate 2 = 28689

My actual readings are
Rate 1 = 11997
Rate 2 = 28371

lstar337

Sarah_81 wrote: »

Hi
Thank you for the advice - I'm not sure I can switch yet as I've only been with my supplier for 6 weeks.

Forgetting all your readings issues, you can switch after 1 day if you want. No need to worry about only being with them for 6 weeks.

Sarah_81 wrote: »

There is also a issue with my opening reading which is my fault as I didn't realise it was a duel meter when I set the account up (before I moved in) My current supplier has therefore been given estimated readings from the previous supplier. These estimated readings are higher than what they should be, tho not by much. It was only when I went to give a new reading online after 6 weeks here I noticed the 2 rates, and the opening readings being a little higher than they should be.

I contacted EDF who explained what happened and I accept full responsibility for not giving the 2 readings. All I had was the 'total' which is all I've ever needed before.

I don't want free electric, I like to pay for what I've used I now have to take 7 day readings so they can calculate my average and work out what my opening readings *should* be. Not ideal, but the best they can do now. I'm glad I caught it, as if I'd left it another couple of months I'd have gone past what the previous supplier estimated and wouldn't even have noticed.

Because of the daily readings I am taking, I am - for the first time - actually aware of my usage.

My estimated readings on the account are
Rate 1 = 12400
Rate 2 = 28689

My actual readings are
Rate 1 = 11997
Rate 2 = 28371

Doesn't sound like it is your fault, EDF should have asked for two readings. They will have your meter type on file.

Just out of curiosity, is it a single meter with two registers or two meters each with their own MPAN?