Powergen demand immediate back payment

Wi_Be

After meter reading errors for 4 years, Powergen demand immediate back payment from my father, a disabled widower in his 80s.

Further to a telephone call from myself, dad received amended gas bill for £670.22, showing newly calculated (estimated) units for each period dating back to November 2002. I explained to Powergen that the meter is outside and has been read on every occasion, though often the resulting bills stated an estimated figure – and what about where they had been Actual? – Well, these figures were also considered incorrect due, possibly, to data entry errors by their contractors - and that the possibility of a surge or meter error was “unlikely”.

On insistence that my father could not afford to settle such arrears (of their making) they finally offered 36 months to pay the “debt”. When I asked for this offer in writing to present to my father, they refused. Their system would not allow it. I offered to pay each quarter as usual and an extra £20 per month by cheque - but then they insisted a direct debit be set up for the lot to cover both estimated future usage and the arrears. No DD, No payment terms! Yes, you guessed it… Their system would not allow it.

They acknowledge that the fault is all their own (verbally, at least) which is why they offer easy payment – but only on their terms.

I advised them of my father’s frail health (recent stokes and hypertension) and his inability to pay. They offer words of understanding and promise to deal solely with myself - but still send my father the bills and make no apology for the unnecessary stress they are continuing to cause. Final suggestions were a pre-payment meter (No payment, no power) or maybe… possibly… Dad could write me the cheque I would give them the “commitment” of a DD.

Where is their commitment to their loyal customer who have always paid on the nose by return of post?

What can I do??

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.

You Father's case if not unusual I am afraid - you will find variations on his plight in many posts on this forum.

I am really surprised that they haven't offered a sizeable discount on the debit amount. This seems the normal course of action where they have been at fault.
I think it is fair to point out that an element of blame can be attached to your father in not checking his bills more thoroughly - but given the circumstances it is understandable that he didn't.

I suggest you write to Energywatch with full details as above, especially stressing that they discarded actual meter readings(it seems the 'computer' often does this if it 'thinks' the reading is inaccurate). I would copy the letter to Powergen.


Whatever you do, avoid getting a pre-payment meter.

There is no commitment to loyal customers these days – regrettably we are all Account No xxxxxx on the computer.

Good luck.

stewie_griffin

Cardew wrote: »

I am really surprised that they haven't offered a sizeable discount on the debit amount. This seems the normal course of action where they have been at fault.

I can't go in to details but OFGEM have advised suppliers not to reduce the balances of customers accounts by large amounts which have been caused by estimated billing. If you do complain then you will probably get something knocked off but I wouldn't be expecting something like half the balance to be cleared.

Joto_2

Hi I go this from the energywatch website. Hope it helps

Companies must have a Code of Practice which covers how they bill consumers. As of July 2006, the main domestic suppliers (those who belong to the Energy Retail Association) agreed a new Code of Practice which stipulated that, where suppliers were at fault for not billing a consumer, they will not backdate (or backbill) more than two years. This drops to a one year timeframe with effect from July 2007.

http://www.energywatch.org.uk/your_questions/index.asp

Cardew

stewie_griffin wrote: »

I can't go in to details but OFGEM have advised suppliers not to reduce the balances of customers accounts by large amounts which have been caused by estimated billing. If you do complain then you will probably get something knocked off but I wouldn't be expecting something like half the balance to be cleared.

Thanks for that, a new policy?

However in the OPs case there are slightly different circumstances as Powergen received correct meter readings but the 'computer' threw them out and substituted estimated readings.

Cardew

Joto wrote: »

Hi I go this from the energywatch website. Hope it helps

Companies must have a Code of Practice which covers how they bill consumers. As of July 2006, the main domestic suppliers (those who belong to the Energy Retail Association) agreed a new Code of Practice which stipulated that, where suppliers were at fault for not billing a consumer, they will not backdate (or backbill) more than two years. This drops to a one year timeframe with effect from July 2007.

http://www.energywatch.org.uk/your_questions/index.asp

That has been covered lots of times but unfortunately does not apply in this case. It deals with customers who have not been billed at all.

The OP's case is the more familiar situation where there have been regular bills, but all based on underestimated meter readings and hence the debit balance has built up. So in this case the Code of Practice you quote does not apply.

stewie_griffin

Cardew wrote: »

Thanks for that, a new policy?

However in the OPs case there are slightly different circumstances as Powergen received correct meter readings but the 'computer' threw them out and substituted estimated readings.

I don't think it's strictly a new policy, more advice from OFGEM really. Each case will still be looked at individually so in the OPs case it may be that a large amount is knocked off.

julesgr

Powergen are complete incompetents in my opinion. Recently they decided that we had a transposed meter...even though one of their engineers visited and confirmed all our readings were correct etc. CS rang and told us they had had a letter from us stating that it was transposed last year (funny we have never written to them).

we had a bill only 4 weeks after the last one telling us we owed a further £50 basically! I rang them and told them they could wait as i had just switched to a cheaper company and we would pay on the final meter reading.

70ian

hi,
Your father's case sounds like it should qualify under the billing code rules with all debt over 12 months written off (as long as bill was dated after july 2007). the back billing rules apply is cases where the company is at fault for the problem e.g. wider than the company simply failing to send you a bill. However, they don't apply in cases where the consumer is at fault such as the case where someone has moved into a property and failed to tell the supplier they live there.

These rules were introduced and designed to ensure that the energy suppliers got their billing systems in order.

If Powergen was receiving regular meter readings but disregarded them - then they are responsible for the account mismanagement. the readings were probably disregarded because they were out of synch with the company's internal billing cycle, that is not your father's fault, it is the company's fault. The readings also may have been ignored because they didn't coincede with what Powergen estimated the bills to be - again Powergen had a duty to investigate this, especially as the problem went back to 2002.

Terrylw1

Hi,

Sounds to me like the first thing you need to do is get a firm reading in place and get rid of the estimate. So, why not provide them with a reading yourself over the phone If they say that doesn't tie in then they need to send someone out to read your meter and look into your case further because you have further problems.

I can understand why they are offering you this on DD only, since that way you have a guarantee in place to pay whereas with ROB cash payments, they don't.

As far as readings from the engineers go:
1 - have PGen even received them from the engineers???
2 - did they get sent to late so they couldn't use them (Suppliers system have billing windows to capture readings, no reading in that window results in a system generated estimate)
3 - don't they tie in? If they don't you need this investigating as something is wrong and your bill is incorrect

I can understand what they are saying about the 36 months as they are not the only one. I know one large Supplier who would offer it on selected cases such as your father and what they had to do is enter it as a brand new deal each year for 3 years to get around it. They then sets markers on the accounts to tell their staff not to up the DD because it would only catch up after 3 years.

Get your readings sorted first before you go anywhere else or you may be wasting your time. The Energywatch route is always open to you from there.

In relation to Stewie's comments about Ofgem guidance...estimates are just that. If the customer disputes them the Supplier just gets a firm reading off the customer or a site reading. This eliminates the argument over estimates. Estimates may then only be scrutinised in the case of a final reading of some variety, hence Ofgem's advice is only telling Suppliers what they alraedy do, hence pointless.

KH23

I cant stand powergen! we have a house in scotland which we rent out and when we gave then our final gas and electric meter readings they sent out a final bill for each. Electric was fine but the gas bill was....wait for it.....£17,138.11!!!!!!!!!!! I nearly collapsed (and I was due to give birth any day LOL). I contacted them and was told this was obviously an error and to ignore that previous bill and cancel the direct debit to them to ensure the money did not come out (like it was in my account to pay it!!). Then received another corrected bill for £978.14! Turns out that they hadn't sent any gas bills for 2 years! I questioned this AGAIN as I had set up a monthly direct debit scheme with them and they assured me (on the phone unfortunately) that it was for both gas & electric - which they now tell me it isn't! I contacted energywatch and was gutted! As the first bill of £17k was sent out a day before the new regulations were put into place we didn't have a leg to stand on with powergen and were told we'd have to pay the £900 bill they were asking for - cheeky sods at powergen must've sent a random bill out to customers they had forgotten to bill previously to make sure the money would have to be paid and not written off I think! I then spoke (well more shouted) to a manager at powergen and eventually they agreed that it was their mistake and as it had taken them 2 years to bill us they would give us 2 years to pay it. So we set up a payment plan and now pay £40 a month until July 2009. Result - BUT we have now started getting phonecalls asking for full payment from UDS (utility debt services) and I have to go through the whole thing all over again just to be told 'oh, yes you are right, sorry we have contacted you in error - sorry' GRRRRRR!