118118 Call completion scam

Craig_Lee

Thanks again Heinz but in this age of technology you don't really expect me to lock my phone away in a box every day when i leave for work do you??

I can send an email to the other side of the world, i can access unlimited information on the internet, i can telephone anyone on the planet that has access to a phone in seconds.

I know for a fact that the technology exists and is already in use by providers such as Virgin Media that bars calls to specific numbers. I expect them to provide as part of their service, full protection against the call completion loophole and any other backdoor methods of circumventing stipulated agreements between VM and myself.
If this cannot be adhered to it is tantamount to service anarchy. Say for example i bite the bullet, pay my bill and ask VM to bar 118 numbers. This will work fine until the next loophole appears (as they always do). Then i will be saddled with yet another huge bill that i have done everything in my power to prevent!

I will not subscribe to a service if this is the case. I will do without.

By the way, all of that doesn't absolve my daughter of her part in actually making the calls in the first place. She will be dealt with!!! Watch out Dad's about!!

Heinz

Had you clicked the Phone Guard link I supplied, you'd have seen it IS just such a piece of technology - one which you program to allow certain leading digits (or, with the key or PIN, allow all calls).

With regard to the (expected) teenager, I think all posters deserve a pat on the back for not making the obvious comments.

Craig_Lee

haha ... you are obviously single Heinz!

Heinz

Craig_Lee wrote: »

haha ... you are obviously single Heinz!

Not at all.

I've just been there, done that.

..... and just wish some of this technology had been available then!

LadFromWales85

At the end of the day, the fault is not with Virgin Media, but with the person who picked up the phone and dialed a non-premium number.

Once you make the call to 118118, or any allowed number for that matter, what happens from the point of connection is nothing at all to do with your call supplier. Whatever services this number may offer upon connection is totally out of the control of your supplier.

Would you blame your ISP if you visited a dodgey site in Internet Explorer that used activeX exploits to cause a download and execution of a virus?

Would you shout at your car manufacturer if you forgot to put fuel in the tank before leaving on a long journey?

etc etc

GreyPilgrim

LadFromWales85 wrote: »

At the end of the day, the fault is not with Virgin Media, but with the person who picked up the phone and dialed a non-premium number.

Have to agree. Lack of ownership and responsibility p1sses me off big style.

BBC ran a report about some office workers who got sacked for surfing for !!!!!! during work time. The worker's union rep blamed the COMPANY for giving them internet access and thereby putting temptation in their way.

Car owners blame speed cameras when they get fined for speeding.

!!!!!!. come down on your daughter like a ton of brick for not obeying your house rules and running up a bill. take EVERYTHING of value she has and sell it on ebay to help pay it off and maybe teach her a lesson about property and the value of money. Then tell her if she does it again it'll be her kidney you sell.

Then lock the phone away in a sturdy cabinet where YOU have the only key.

May sound a bit medieval, but needs must.

Craig_Lee

Sorry but i disagree.

You can keep the self-righteousness as this is nothing to do with responsibility not shouldered on my part and neither is it to do with the buck stopping with my daughter who as i have said previously will be dealt with.

This is all about dodgy practise and a point of principle!

Lay this over a consumables scenario ....

VM run a builders merchants. I have an account with them. I pay this at the end of every month.
It runs smoothly until i find that someone is having goods on my account and running me up a huge bill. Quite rightly, i am responsible for making sure that the account is paid in full and will have to deal with the culprit separately to recoup my losses. The other thing i have to ensure is that this abuse of my account doesn't happen again. I tell VM builders merchants not to let anyone have materials on my account without my express permission.

This all works fine until 118118 open up another builders merchants right next door to VM. They sell the same materials but they are more expensive. They have no method of taking direct payments so they ask VM if they can charge for their more expensive goods through their accounts system in return for a percentage of their profit. They also take on the VM customer base. They stipulate that anyone that supply's and account name may have goods on that account, no questions asked!!!

Now me, being of sound mind, would never venture into the 118118 premises as i don't want to pay more for the same goods that i can get from my normal supplier. However the person(s) who abused my account previously, now have access to more expensive goods that will be charged to my account without my permission.

There is absolutely NO difference between that scenario and reality.
I know what would happen if the mock scenario was true(and i say mock but it happens quite a lot) ... you would have builders chasing each other over town 'politely' asking for their money back!!

GreyPilgrim

Again with the convoluted analogies. I'm not being self righteous, I'm just stating that VM fulfilled there obligation - they prevented calls to premium rate numbers from your line. The fact that your daughter was devious and conniving enough to circumvent the measures isn't VM's fault, it's your daughters and maybe it's her behaviour that needs some focus here? Your daughter knew you didn't want her to make these calls. She new you had put call barring in place yet she was determined and disrespectful enough to find a way to make them.

Your daughter has, in effect, stolen from you and that needs addressing, rather than moaning about VM's failure to prevent her actions. If she's determined enough to steal from you then she would probably do it even if you DID lock the phone away in a steel cabinet.

Teach her a lesson, and this won't happen again.

normanmark

I think you need to ease off the scenarios & analogies. Bottom line is the VM blocker for premium numbers worked. The number she dials, 118 118 is not a premium number, she then decides to connect to mobiles via that number. The decision to do that is the person on the phone (who the operator assumes has the permission of the bill payer).

I can see you're trying to justify it, but VM havent done anything wrong here. There service works & blocks premium numbers. The buck definitely stops with your daughter i'm afraid.

Craig_Lee

Bottom line is the VM blocker for premium numbers worked. The number she dials, 118 118 is not a premium number, she then decides to connect to mobiles via that number. The decision to do that is the person on the phone (who the operator assumes has the permission of the bill payer).

Have a look at this:-

http://www.computeractive.co.uk/computeractive/news/2157040/ictis-acts-abuse-118-services

In particular this section:-

Both Icstis and Computeractive independently verified that 118 118 operators were doing this. Twelve other directory enquiry services, when blind tested, refused to connect us, saying we should contact the operator.
Although we found that only 118 118 operators was connecting people this way, Icstis is writing to all directory enquiry companies about the matter.
118 118 told Computeractive it was deeply concerned by our findings. It said it was already looking at measures that could be put in place to prevent a repeat of this problem.
As a goodwill gesture it is prepared to pay a significant proportion of Mr Gallaher's bill.

118118 is NOT the operator it is a directory enquiry service and should therefore NOT assume that the bill payers permission has been granted. This would then put them in line with the other 118 services (referenced above) who behave in a responsible manner!