Electric cars

Uxb

vman wrote: »

People who see this as a problem remind me of those old boy plumbers who refuse to use plastic pipe no matter what. They'll come up with a few incoherent excuses why they'll only use copper but in reality everybody knows its because they are just old boys who have always done stuff in a certain way because thats what they were taught 40 or 50 years ago and dont like change.

If you read the manufacturer's specifications for their installation it requires them to be fitted in a totally rodent free environment.
To quote from JGSpeedfit "when used in locations vulnerable to rodent attack all plastic pipes and fittings should be adequately protected within sealed ducts"
..and that means no mice.
So they are being fitted inappropriately in most houses.
Last one heard of getting loose was a plastic flexible to a washing machine wall outlet tap taken/run off from a copper pipe....cos it was cheaper I expect to extend it that way. The flexible burst - and the mess in the house on the ground floor from a few hours of full bore water was indescribable.
They used 100% copper on the re-fit, can't imagine why!

Uxb

Stageshoot wrote: »

No matter how loud people moan about it its going to happen, and its happening because when people finally try an EV they see what they have been missing, a calm and relaxing drive

I know people who have Tesla S's and have been driven in one.
Very nice it is too and at £70000 bleeding pounds so it should be.
Meanwhile I can pick up an ICE second hand car for £1200.
Hell at that price I can simply buy another ICE car at £1200 each year, forget about MOT and servicing and just scrap the old one and it will still STILL be way cheaper than buying a Tesla even when you factor in the cost of fuel.
Whether I get zero road tax and how cheap it is to run is a total irrelevance.

Needless to say these with the Tesla are not short of the odd bob or two and the Tesla is their "statement" car to show the world how green they are (yeah right) - they all have a normal ICE car as well - a SUV which is neither green nor economical. It's a total comedy.

Stageshoot

Uxb wrote: »

I know people who have Tesla S's and have been driven in one.
Very nice it is too and at £70000 bleeding pounds so it should be.
Meanwhile I can pick up an ICE second hand car for £1200.
Hell at that price I can simply buy another ICE car at £1200 each year, forget about MOT and servicing and just scrap the old one and it will still STILL be way cheaper than buying a Tesla even when you factor in the cost of fuel.
Whether I get zero road tax and how cheap it is to run is a total irrelevance.

Needless to say these with the Tesla are not short of the odd bob or two and the Tesla is their "statement" car to show the world how green they are (yeah right) - they all have a normal ICE car as well - a SUV which is neither green nor economical. It's a total comedy.

Codswallop , Tesla Tesla Tesla the world does not revolve around them,

There are great EVs out there at realistic prices.

You can pick up Used Zoes and Leafs for £5k and under..

Why does everyone assume every EV is a Massive Priced Luxury Car, Its like saying the only Petrol Cars available are Jags or Bentley's

A 4 year old leaf is comparable to a a 4 year old Focus or Mondeo in price, but when you buy it you no longer have to stump up for fuel every time you drive it.

EV motoring can be as cheap as any form of motoring.

Geez if you are tight as a ducks fart flap you could pick up a 2012 Renualt Fluance for £2k or so

AdrianC

Stageshoot wrote: »

You can pick up Used Zoes and Leafs for £5k and under..

Why does everyone assume every EV is a Massive Priced Luxury Car, Its like saying the only Petrol Cars available are Jags or Bentley's

A 4 year old leaf is comparable to a a 4 year old Focus or Mondeo in price, but when you buy it you no longer have to stump up for fuel every time you drive it.

EV motoring can be as cheap as any form of motoring.

Geez if you are tight as a ducks fart flap you could pick up a 2012 Renualt Fluance for £2k or so

And those used prices include the battery ownership, do they? Or is that plus the monthly lease...?

As for the Renault Flatulence - it sold very, VERY badly over here - there are a grand total 70-odd on the road. And 15 of those are private-import diesels...

almillar

As you point out, manufacturers are currently implementing loan schemes with ICE, and that is to meet _today's_ issue. I really wouldn't like to speculate on the situation in 5 years time, on range, on market penetration and on infrastructure

BMW used to do this for the i3 - they stopped due to low take-up (so they say). Perhaps it's less hassle to just charge your car than to hang around and do all the form-filling etc to borrow an ICE car.

One of the things that strikes me as amusing are the anti-RE (and here we're mainly talking wind and PV) people going on about the surpluses we'll have at certain times from an excess of that power (sunny summer afternoons, windy nights etc.). As we increase RE we'll need to implement solutions so that we use it. EVs are ideally placed to mop up cheaper power when it's available (even forgetting the storage potential, which I think is a lot further into the future).

Yup - how about an old Leaf battery at the bottom of every windmill?! All of the above sounds much easier than switching on and off powerstations!

That's kinda the whole point. If the technology means you have to change the way you use the product, then the technology is causing a problem.

I think I've already made this point, but fossil fuels will run out. Your ICE car runs on them. THAT technology means you will have to change! THERE'S your problem!

Very nice it is too and at £70000 bleeding pounds so it should be.
Meanwhile I can pick up an ICE second hand car for £1200

.

What a ridiculous, unfair comparison. How old is the ICE car? You buy an iPhone7, or an iPhone3, the 3 will be older and cheaper. Why not compare like for like? Compare the brand new Tesla, versus a brand new BMW 5 series. You can't have a £1,200 electric car yet, but what on earth do you think will happen once they're old enough? £4,000 will buy you an iMiev I reckon BTW, watch the prices come down...

AnotherJoe

Uxb wrote: »

Needless to say these with the Tesla are not short of the odd bob or two and the Tesla is their "statement" car to show the world how green they are (yeah right) - they all have a normal ICE car as well - a SUV which is neither green nor economical. It's a total comedy.

It's very green if it's not being driven because of the Tesla.

They may also have bought it because it's simply a "better" car (in their terms) rather than because it's green.:D

Not everyone buys a car just because it's cheaper to run, self evidently Tesla owners don't, though within the next five years or so, the crossover point will occur, when for most use cases in mid priced cars the overall cost, e.g. purchase, maintenance and fuel, it will be cheaper to go for BEV, new or s/h. And if you include the cost all of us are "paying" thanks to being silently poisoned by diesel emissions (what a catastrophic green-driven agenda that turned out to be) the cross over might be in a year or two.

HolmesM

It's good to think ahead like that, but I'm looking at starting a lease deal on a new car and not a bit concerned. It will be a long while before we're all driving around in electric cars.

I guess a good compromise would be a hybrid for now ?

silverwhistle

Uxb wrote: »

I know people who have Tesla S's and have been driven in one.
Very nice it is too and at £70000 bleeding pounds so it should be.
Meanwhile I can pick up an ICE second hand car for £1200.

I've been in posh ICE cars, and they've been way beyond my budget too. I'm not very practical so my car budget is nearer £4k thus far, although with inflation may next one may be more expensive and I may risk spending some of my long term savings.

As pointed out second hand EVs are coming down in price, although those second hand ones are still not with a range I'd need for my current usage patterns but if I was still working in an office or college they'd be ideal. If I lived near London and needed to go anywhere near there in a car that would be a bigger incentive, but when I go up to the smoke I save up (not really, it seems like that!) and go by train..

A PHEV like the Outlander would be great but it's bigger and more expensive than I need. Similar technology in a smaller, cheaper model would attract me.

So all in all I'm keeping an eye on developments and the S/H market. It's changing pretty quickly.

silverwhistle

NigeWick wrote: »

I am planning a trip to France next year and have found fast charger (ChaDeMo) locations that will allow me to do the trip in my 30kWh Leaf. And, I am hoping that there will be more places to charge by next September.

Thanks for your practical report. My annual holiday is a trip to the Alps (in the winter..) so I don't think EVs will do me for a while yet, but do update us on your experiences.

It would be good if they installed charging points at the bottom of the Valtournenche valley, but they wouldn't need many at Cervinia, as regenerative braking would do the rest!:D

Cash-Strapped.T32

almillar wrote: »

That's kinda the whole point. If the technology means you have to change the way you use the product, then the technology is causing a problem.

What a ridiculous, unfair comparison. How old is the ICE car? You buy an iPhone7, or an iPhone3, the 3 will be older and cheaper. Why not compare like for like?

Your mobile analogy is even more spot-on than you might think.
Look at how the technology of smartphones has driven the behaviour.
Just observe how people use their smartphones, and compare that to previous phones (or any other product we've ever had) - it's clear that in this case, the egg did come before the chicken; ie; the advent of the technology drove the way we use it.

Sometimes the change in technology absolutely means you change the way people use it. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes a bad thing, and sometimes it's just different, neither good nor bad. Just is.