Electric cars

AdrianC

Was that the discussion over putting a generator into a trailer to fast-recharge at the same time as driving?

I didn't claim it was impossible. I simply did the sums as to the generator output required, and pointed to the size of generator required. There was some disagreement, most of which ignored the "at the same time" bit.

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

3,630 cars across Europe in February. Impressive - but they're customers who've been waiting for a long time. Let's see what happens once the backlog clears.

"Outsold"? Well, there's no February figures as yet for the others on the usual public source, but...

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-3-series/
3-series has only had one <5k month in four years.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/mercedes-benz/mercedes-benz-c-class/
C-class hasn't had a <10k month in four years.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/audi/audi-a4/
A4 had a spate in the autumn of lower sales than that (WLTP production difficulties?), but they're very much the outlier. Excluding that, there's been only one <7.5k month in four years.

So, if it does turn out to be true, the question is surely what prompted such a massive collapse in the market generally?

Hi

Maybe something to do with recent falling car sales across Europe, particularly affecting the luxury brands & larger/higher specification models ... for example, year on year sales in January for VW fell by ~6.5%, whilst Audi dropped by ~17% and Porche roughly halved ... whoops, what's going on there then!?

I'm sure you'll look to confirm that this is the likely reason, but one thing is sure, Tesla are now selling the M3 in Europe & the tremors are certainly shaking the boardrooms and causing concern to executives of a number of global automotive marques for them to have made a number of recent announcements ...

3630 Tesla model 3 cars may not be significant when compared to the total number of vehicles sold in Europe, but what needs to be understood is that it's 3630 of a model not sold in Europe before and represents a considerable single month increase in the market penetration of EVs ...

At some time in the future it's likely that the same argument on this thread will revolve around there still being 3630 purely internal combustion engined vehicles being sold and therefore the vision of clean transport through full electrification had not been met and had therefore failed ....




Straws, grasp & delusion readily come to mind!

HTH
Z

AdrianC

zeupater wrote: »

...but one thing is sure, Tesla are now selling the M3 in Europe

Finally, yes - no real surprise there. Production is still way behind the projections (we appear to have finally hit a sustainable 6k, with a couple of 8k peaks), though. It'll be interesting to see the Q1 production totals in a couple of weeks, then the Q1 financials a month later. Has the corner turned? Or were the profitable quarters freaks down to book-massaging?

& the tremors are certainly shaking the boardrooms and causing concern to executives of a number of global automotive marques for them to have made a number of recent announcements ...

That's been a truism for years.

3630 Tesla model 3 cars may not be significant when compared to the total number of vehicles sold in Europe, but what needs to be understood is that it's 3630 of a model not sold in Europe before

Sure, but it's simply a change in destination for what's now been in non-trivial-scale production for nearly two years, with heading for a quarter of a million built.


Nobody's saying the Model 3 is not seeing impressive numbers - just that they still aren't living up to the claims made by the evangelists. Underpromise and overdeliver, remember? Not vice-versa.

and represents a considerable single month increase in the market penetration of EVs ...

About a 12% increase over January's 33k, a bit more than Renault Zoes registered in January (itself +80% year on year). The other top sellers were Outlander PHEV and Leaf both just under 3k, with i3, e-Golf and Kona all above 2k.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/04/electric-vehicle-sales-jump-67-in-europe-cleantechnicas-europe-ev-sales-report/

Jaguar shifted nearly 3k i-Paces in December, btw, although that dropped right back for January.

At some time in the future it's likely that the same argument on this thread will revolve around there still being 3630 purely internal combustion engined vehicles being sold and therefore the vision of clean transport through full electrification had not been met and had therefore failed ....

Straws, grasp & delusion readily come to mind!

You're absolutely right. Anybody claiming that would be grasping at deluded straws.

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

Was that the discussion over putting a generator into a trailer to fast-recharge at the same time as driving?

I didn't claim it was impossible. I simply did the sums as to the generator output required, and pointed to the size of generator required. There was some disagreement, most of which ignored the "at the same time" bit.

Hi

I seem to remember someone disagreeing with the concept of range extension on grounds of unit size & providing a link to huge mobile site generation plant (as in deliverable & installable to running conditions in a couple of days) which is used for situations such as disaster contingency planning ... however, wasn't that countered by someone raising the comparative size, portability & suitability of the ICE range extension generator which was at the time available under the bonnet of an existing vehicle - the Ampera ?

Talk about shaky foundations for argument! ... as mentioned previously, boardrooms of legacy automotive manufacturers are feeling the tremors already, so what's the chance that they'll be worried enough to 'up' their efforts towards electrification before they turn to quakes strong enough to test their own corporate foundations? ... probably not low if they are to survive in anything like their current form!

HTH
Z

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

.. About a 12% increase over January's 33k, a bit more than Renault Zoes registered in January (itself +80% year on year). The other top sellers were Outlander PHEV and Leaf both just under 3k, with i3, e-Golf and Kona all above 2k.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/04/electric-vehicle-sales-jump-67-in-europe-cleantechnicas-europe-ev-sales-report/

Jaguar shifted nearly 3k i-Paces in December, btw, although that dropped right back for January ...

Hi

So in a position where overall automotive sales seem to be falling in Europe, particularly noteable in the higher specification sector, both the market penetration percentage and number of vehicles sold on a year over year basis for EVs seems to be bucking the trend and showing significant growth ?? ...

<Thinking aloud> ... Wonder what's the root cause behind that then? ...

HTH
Z

Herzlos

AdrianC wrote: »

Was that the discussion over putting a generator into a trailer to fast-recharge at the same time as driving?

I didn't claim it was impossible. I simply did the sums as to the generator output required, and pointed to the size of generator required. There was some disagreement, most of which ignored the "at the same time" bit.

That's closer to your example, but both generator-in-trailer and battery-in-trailer have come up in here a few times and been poo-poo'd by yourself as impractical, though we disagreed on the maths.


Personally, I'm not sure how viable they are now, purely because battery range and charging speed is leaping forward. 300 miles on an internal battery before a 30 min charge will be enough for most.



There's always going to be the possibility to fit batteries to trailers - for HGVs, caravans etc. Potentially they could even provide some drive power to take the strain off the tractor unit, provide better poor weather traction and so on.

AdrianC

Herzlos wrote: »

Potentially they could even provide some drive power to take the strain off the tractor unit, provide better poor weather traction and so on.

Driven trailers are really not a nice thing. There's serious jack-knife potential there.

Herzlos

AdrianC wrote: »

Driven trailers are really not a nice thing. There's serious jack-knife potential there.

True, but I'm talking more about providing some assistance - enough to overcome inertia to help moving and aid traction, though there'd still be a lot of complexity. They'd also be brilliant for taxiing around yards.


Nice of you to dodge the main point though, I guess we can take that as acknowledgement that you were wrong

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

And it isn't.

Take the two letters "EV" away, and you've exactly described what I posted photos of, going back more than three-quarters of a century. So we're down to whether an old, old concept of a range-extender trailer is somehow "startlingly original", simply because it's a different energy source within it. We've been here before...

Add the number you first thought of, divide by your age, remove the first and last letter, insert your mother's maiden name .......

But again, please accept my deepest apologies for causing you so, so much confusion.

For clarification, and to help your understanding:-
1. This thread is about EV's, not WWII coal/wood gas vehicles (WWIIC/WGV's for short).
2. My post was about EV's, not WWIIC/WGV's.
3. The Youtube channel I posted a link to, are all about EV's, not WWIIC/WGV's.
4. The item I referred to was about EV's not WWIIC/WGV's.

I appreciate that it was a simple mistake (for you) that you made, and that had you watched the link, before commenting on it, you would probably have still made the same mistake, but there's always a tiny chance that expanding your knowledge, not your bias, might just help you avoid this horrific confusion in the future.

BTW, I'm more than a little worried for your well-being now. Can I just suggest that if you turn on your electric oven, and it gives off a methane like smell, then you might not want to light a match in its vicinity. HTH.

AdrianC wrote: »

As for "weeks of peace", I was travelling, coincidentally to a country where electric vehicles form a surprisingly large part of the vehicle fleet. Bet you won't guess where...

If we have a whip round, could you go again?

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

BTW, Martyn...

See you at this?
https://www.hayfestival.com/p-15339-jesse-norman-mike-hawes-and-special-guest.aspx

Nah, when you've seen one WWIIC/WGV you've seen em all.