Electric cars

System

Gloomendoom wrote: »

I read somewhere that they are about two tons heavier than the equivalent diesel tractor unit.

That must be for the low mileage variant. There's no way on earth you're having 500 miles of motors, chassis, cab and everything else weighing just 3 tonnes. Hell even the wheels and tyres alone weigh between 600kg and 800kg depending on axle configuration.

Martyn1981

Tarambor wrote: »

I did some rough back of fag packet maths from the specs that have been released and on the 500 mile version of the Tesla truck the weight of the batteries alone would be 85% of that of my entire tractor unit.

Hiya, if you recall, I went through your 'fag packet' maths last year, and tore em to pieces:-

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Originally Posted by Tarambor View Post
By my calculations based on a Tesla Model S, to move the UK maximum lorry weight limit of 44 tonnes 300 miles (100-120 miles less than I do in a single shift) requires 10 tonnes of batteries.

I'm afraid your calculations are wrong.

The 300 mile Tesla truck has a 600kWh battery. You may be aware that Tesla stated that their trucks consume less than 2kWh/mile at max weight (80,000lb).

Speculation is rife that the battery technology will be an upgrade, this coincides with rumours as to 'how in hell' are they squeezing 200kWh into the new Roadster2.

But let's stick with current weight, so shall we look to AdrianC, after all he is clearly not a Tesla supporter, and he stated that:

Originally Posted by AdrianC View Post
Nobody else is really doing that, not least because of the weight (the Model S battery is about 600kg -

Now admittedly, he didn't specify a model, so let's go with the smallest at 75kWh, so 600kWh would therefore weigh -

(600kg/75) x 600 = 4,800kg, so less than half the weight you claim.

Or we can look at the Renault Zoe, whose 41kWh (useable) battery weighs 305kg up from 290kg for the older 23kWh battery.

So (305/41) x 600 = 4,463kg, so less than half the weight you claim.

In my earlier example I suggested a weight saving of 5,000lbs to 8,000lbs, so around 2.27 to 3.63 tonnes, to help balance out the additional battery weight.

Later on I mentioned the Nicola One Hydrogen truck. They are reporting that its weight is 2,000lb lighter than a diesel truck, despite having 320kWh of batts on board.

So allowing for the additional 280kWh of the 300 mile range Tesla, that would add 2,800lb's of battery weight, then deduct the fuel cell kit and hydrogen tanks. Probably breaks even with the diesel.


[Edit - this article suggests the 300 mile truck weighs approx 1,000lb more than a day cab diesel, and the 500 mile truck weighs approx 1,000lb more than a sleeper cab diesel.

Does Tesla Semi Break the Laws of Physics?

I nearly posted this when it came out, but thought the issue had gone quiet. M.]

Tarambor wrote: »

The other downside for the Tesla Semi Truck is that to do a 30 minute recharge that Tesla state you're going to need a 1.2MWh charge point for the 300 mile range and a 2MWh charge point for the 500 mile range variant. To put it into context when you go to the motorway services and see the row of half a dozen Tesla charge points that entire row doesn't even come close to using half that rate. 1.2-2.0MWh charge points requires some serious electrical infrastructure being put in place where the charge points are.

Actually as discussed on here in the past, and almost every forum, the charger would need to be 1.6MWh, to provide 0.8MWh in 30 mins.

Yes, a mega-charger build out will be needed, but not sure why you think that's a problem, especially given that Tesla have a proven record already, having rolled out a Super-charger network worldwide.

Regarding electrical infrastructure, again, not sure why this is a problem, please explain? But are you aware that Tesla already deploy Powerpacks at some charge sites to smooth out the electrical demand/supply?


I think any concerns over weight or size, or range of these vehicles is simply pointless. Those fleets that can use them for their current business will - after all, Tesla has suggested a 2yr payback on the cost difference, whilst DHL has suggested an 18month payback. In Europe, with diesel at twice the price, expect a payback far quicker on the £110k 300 mile tractor, or the £140k 500 mile tractor.

Those fleets that can't use them, yet, won't, till a suitable EV tractor is available.

Edit - I should have said that I got the UK prices from watching a You-tube vid a few days back:-

Tesla Semi Explained - UK Orders Open

This guy seemed impressed, and happy.

Martyn1981

Another article in CleanTechnica's myth busting serious on EV's:-

Electric Car Myth Buster !!!8212; Efficiency


and another on the green'ness of the leccy source:-

Electrifying Transport Is Green Here, Greener There, & Green As Kermit The Frog In Norway Or With A Solar Roof

NigeWick

Took charge of my new 40kWh Nissan Leaf 2.ZERO on Friday. It may only be a bit of an upgrade to the old version but it IS far better to drive.

I am with Ecotricity at present to take advantage of the 52 free charges that were offered last year when I joined them. They have stopped that and just charge customers 15p per kWh from their rapid chargers rather than 30p per kWh for non customers. I am moving over to Ovo as they have a deal of two years free subscription to the Polar charging system. The reason for this is that I can now drive to both my daughters with stopping en route and there are Polar rapid chargers near both their locations at 9p per kWh (for subscribers). And, my one annual 270 mile journey has a Polar rapid about half way. This means I will be able to do the 540 mile round trip for less than £20 in fuel costs as I charge using solar at home.

Gloomendoom

Tarambor wrote: »

That must be for the low mileage variant. There's no way on earth you're having 500 miles of motors, chassis, cab and everything else weighing just 3 tonnes. Hell even the wheels and tyres alone weigh between 600kg and 800kg depending on axle configuration.

An extra two tons would make it around 9 or 10 tons all up.

Reasonable?

AdrianC

A typical European diesel artic tractor unit is around 9.5t unladen weight, and carries 3-400 litres of fuel.
http://tools.mercedes-benz.co.uk/current/trucks/specification-sheets/actros/actros-6x4-tractor-3346-3355.pdf

A typical modern curtainside trailer is around 6.5t minimum.
https://www.cargobull.com/files/fi/filemanager_files/Neufahrzeuge/Curtainsider/SCS-Broschuere-Transport-PC-GB.pdf

So unladen weight for the whole shebang is north of 16t, leaving the payload somewhere north of 20t.

Add 2t to the unladen weight, and you've just taken damn near 10% off the payload.

Gloomendoom

A brief Google suggests that US tractor units seem to weigh in at between 17,000 and 22,000 lbs fuelled depending on spec.(7.7 - 10 metric tons)

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Add 2t to the unladen weight, and you've just taken damn near 10% off the payload.

Nope. You've taken 10% off the max payload.

You are applying your broken EV car logic to trucks now, and assuming that the only market is one of max weight and or max length. It's not.

Edit - You also need to be careful before claiming a 2tonne weight increase (for the 500 mile model) not to use 2017/18 batt weights, but 2019/20 batt weights, at it is assumed Tesla have something up their sleevies. M.

Martyn1981

Gloomendoom wrote: »

A brief Google suggests that US tractor units seem to weigh in at between 17,000 and 22,000 lbs fuelled depending on spec.(7.7 - 10 metric tons)

That looks very similar to the CleanTechnica calcs too, so seems a reasonable starting point.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Nope. You've taken 10% off the max payload.

Tautology, much?

You are applying your broken EV car logic to trucks now, and assuming that the only market is one of max weight and or max length. It's not.

Some loads cube out, yes, then there's part loads. But not many - and it's certainly not something any haulier will be happy to rely on.

Edit - You also need to be careful before claiming a 2tonne weight increase (for the 500 mile model) not to use 2017/18 batt weights, but 2019/20 batt weights, at it is assumed Tesla have something up their sleevies. M.

Do you mind terribly if I fail to hold my breath?