Major damp in kitchen - survey failed to spot this

pedgepuk

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on my next steps which will probably cost me money.

Back in November 2015 I moved in to my new home after completing. The Homebuyers Survey was carried out at the tail end of August 2015 whereby some rising damp was found in small sections of the house, mainly in the window bay section of the living room. This was highlighted in the report.

Since this was caught, I asked a 3rd party company, Kenwood, to visit the property and perform a proper survey. They highlighted the sections of where the rising damp was in the property.

The problem is, one of the kitchen corners has gained damp quite rapidly over the course of 6 months between March and October 2016, where the paint work is completely blistered from the worktop to the ceiling. Kitchen cupboard carcasses in that section have also bowed.

Two damp companies have been to survey the property whereby one suggested £4k to remedy the problem, and another suggesting that it's more than just rising damp, and could be a hidden pipe, and I should call my insurers. The insurers surveyor did come out to inspect and found nothing that could point to a hidden pipe as my water bill hasn't surged although the wall is completely saturated with readings at 100% moisture. The insurers surveyor suggested that the outside drains be checked in case the cause is there as it's the other side of the wall where the damp has spread.

Just as I was to arrange drain cctv to be done, a neighbour of mine who has worked in property for 40 years, suggested I call my mortgage company to ask why the Homebuyers Survey never picked this up, since the seriousness of the damp would have been there a lot longer than 12 months and rising damp doesn't normally go above 1.5 metres.

So my question is, would the mortgage company or Homebuyers surveyors have to perform an investigation of their own or is it too late now?

TIA

P

Chanes

I believe the surveyor may only test areas randomly and they do miss things. We had some serious problems with an old house but it was pointless trying to blame the surveyor they usually have every angle covered. It made me feel sick when we found the problems moving into our first house. I hope your luck improves, we had a new kitchen floor and a metre of new plastering from ground up. And then had to have the kitchen re-installed!

Doozergirl

The likes of Kenwood would find rising damp in a desert so I wouldn't take their word as a sign of a major problem.

The amazing thing is someone saying 'it isn't just rising damp, it could be a leak' as that is the most common reason for dampness and that is what has to be solved. It exposes this type of 'damp specialist' for what they are. Not specialists at all. I've been shown photos of two properties on this board in the last couple of months, post new DPC where the original problem is still there! All new rendering and plasterwork does is trap it in the wall.

Were you aware of the kitchen problem when you moved in? You may struggle to place blame with a surveyor if there wasn't evidence before you bought.

Please take some photos of both sides of the currently affected area and post them here? There's usually some evidence showing.

TheCyclingProgrammer

The problem with these surveys is that the words "rising damp" on a report usually just mean the surveyor stuck a damp meter - which are normally designed and calibrated for testing dampness in wood - on the wall and recorded higher than normal results. Its in no way sufficient to make a diagnosis of the cause of the problem.

So people call out a "damp specialist" to do a "free survey" and inevitably, as Doozergirl has already said, they diagnose rising damp and would you like us to do you a quote sir for our chemically injected DPC and specialist re-plastering that means you won't be able to redecorate for 6 months?

Many causes of damp can be determined by an experienced builder with a keen eye IMO but if you want to get a proper specialist, independent opinion, you need to pay for a survey from an independent damp surveyor.

The cause is far more likely to be condensation or a leak or penetrating damp from the outside (maybe due to leaking guttering) or the DPC being bridged by water due to high ground levels. Some people are skeptical that "rising damp" even exists and if it does, a failed DPC would be low down the likely list of causes.

So as Doozergirl says, post some photos. There are experienced people here who may be able to give you a clue. If its an external wall, try and post some photos of the outside of the wall too.

Grenage

pedgepuk wrote: »

the paint work is completely blistered from the worktop to the ceiling. Kitchen cupboard carcasses in that section have also bowed.

That's a mad amount (and height) of water - are you absolutely sure you don't have a leak?

pedgepuk

Doozergirl wrote: »

The likes of Kenwood would find rising damp in a desert so I wouldn't take their word as a sign of a major problem.

The amazing thing is someone saying 'it isn't just rising damp, it could be a leak' as that is the most common reason for dampness and that is what has to be solved. It exposes this type of 'damp specialist' for what they are. Not specialists at all. I've been shown photos of two properties on this board in the last couple of months, post new DPC where the original problem is still there! All new rendering and plasterwork does is trap it in the wall.

Were you aware of the kitchen problem when you moved in? You may struggle to place blame with a surveyor if there wasn't evidence before you bought.

Please take some photos of both sides of the currently affected area and post them here? There's usually some evidence showing.

I should have clarified this, but I instructed Kenwood to carry out a survey of damp prior to me exchanging contracts (September 2015) which actually knocked off some money from the asking price but they never mentioned in their detailed survey any signs of damp in that corner of the kitchen. Perhaps they never tested it as the kitchen cupboards are in the way.

The shower is directly above but this was resealed last summer but there was no sign of a leak from there. The kitchen ceiling is also dry and shows no signs of water coming from the shower.

I didn't see any sign of damp when I viewed the property in August 2015 nor when I came to take measurements in November 2015. Sellers do cover up with a lick of paint so may be the problem has been there for a lot longer.

Attached is a link to some snaps I've just taken. As you'll be able to see, the damp has spread to the top and all the paint has blistered.

https://btcloud.bt.com/web/app/share/invite/tMTV0cAw5a

https://btcloud.bt.com/web/app/share/invite/Ge3vRqXso3

TheCyclingProgrammer

I'm no expert but my initial thoughts are that even if rising damp was a possible cause, the damp symptoms you are seeing are far too high.

The mould around the kitchen door looks to be a symptom of condensation to me. What is the ventilation like?

Doozergirl

Spectacular! If the surveyor didn't spot it and Kenwood didn't find that then I think it's quite new.

Unless. Has the house been renovated?

I don't think that's mould, I think it's salts. Penetrating damp. The pic isn't great though.

The first link doesn't work for me. Are there any pics of outside? I'd like to see the whole of the kitchen wall internally and the whole wall externally.

How is your guttering on that side?

phil24_7

Agree with most people in here.

A DPC installing company with diagnose damp in 99.9% of cases, it's how they make their money. I am in the camp of 'there is no such thing as rising damp', especially that an injected DPC is ever going to fix! My DPC (a layer of slate as my house is stone built) is below ground level and the only time I have had damp is due to external ground sloping towards the house. After rectifying this and installing drainage the damp has gone.

Moisture meters are usually calibrated for wood. You can get them for 'other materials' but they are by no means accurate unless you may big bucks for them. These meters should also have the range of 5-50% for wood and 1.3-35% for building materials. How you can have 100% moisture content in building materials is beyond me!

Has that room been recently decorated/plastered? If so it may be that it was applied on a wet substrate or that the render wasn't allowed to dry out before plaster and paint was applied. I agree that most of it looks like salts and paint bubbling which are all signs that moisture is coming out of or is trapped in the walls/substrate.

More pictures of both inside (whole walls) and outside (to include guttering and ground levels) will help the folk on here to diagnose your problem.

phil24_7

Are you 100% sure the shower (or bath) upstairs is not leaking? Water will take the path of least resistance so may not show where you think it should. A hole in the kitchen ceiling, near the wall, big enough to get you head through, would enable to see if anything untoward is happening up there. It should be easy enough to repair too.

TheCyclingProgrammer

Yes, scratch what I said about mould. When I looked at the photos before it looked like black mould but looking at it in a different light I think it was just the shadows from the bubbling paint that made it look that way.

Still, rising damp my ****!