Are degrees in the UK value for money?

Cakeguts

Arklight wrote: »

None of this is right. I don't understand where you are getting your information from.


American students finish high school with high school certificate and a recorded GPA out of 4.0. The winter prior to that they may take college entrance exams. Commonly SATs or ACTs.


They may also take Advanced Placement courses which give them college level credit while at high school.


An Associate Degree at a community college articulates onto the Junior year (3rd out of 4) at a 4 year college. The UK equivalent would be the first year of a degree course.


You can attend community college for $1000 or so per year, followed by 2 years paying in state tuition fees of $5000 per annum if you are in the right location.


The tuition fees in the US can be potentially unlimited but they can also be very cheap. On average the UK is now charging more than the US.

You seem to be a bit out of date. For medicine in the US you have to have a community college degree before you do the ACT or SAT thing. University courses in the US are four years. People do a community college degree and then transfer to a 4 year university course. There wouldn't be any point in them doing this if the community college degree was the same level. Universities that are in the state that you live in are free out of state education is paid for.

Basically you go to a community college to top up your education to a the standard required to get into a 4 year course if you haven't done the right level of courses at high school. The general high school diploma is about the level of GCSEs. US education has been dumbed down to this extent so that most students can graduate high school. Community college fills the gap for the people who have done the GCSE type courses to graduate high school. The students who have done all honours courses reach the standard of A level in the UK and miss out on going to community college and go straight to the 4 year courses. Community college is the equivalent of an A level course in the UK but starting at age 18. The university courses are 4 years because they start from such a low level and need to be 4 years to catch up.

I am hoping that I will be dead by the time that the UK education has been dumbed down to this level. It is already impossible to get any paperwork done first time correctly. I don't want to have to deal with people who can't get it right after the 3rd or 4th attempt or even getting them to tell me what I need to know and doing it myself......

westernpromise

phillw wrote: »

I went into IT, I didn't do a levels or a degree. No part of my education was of any use at all. By your argument we should abolish all schools because they have zero benefit.

IT is the new woodwork. It's a GCSE and A Level subject favoured mainly by dumboes. To do a computer science degree at anywhere decent, you don't even need a computer science A level, you need maths.

If we could accurately identify at school who'll end up crawling around under other people's desks in a cheesecloth shirt with a screwdriver, connecting monitors to base units, there would indeed be a good argument for pulling those klds out of school early. I don't know what they'd do instead though, so it's in effect just a childminding service.

westernpromise

economic wrote: »

if i were to chose between two candidates for my business:
1) person A: good degree related to my business from a good uni but little to no experience
2) person B: no degree, started a small business on his own since leaving school, has 2-3 years solid trading experience in his business

I would EASILY chose person B to work for me. problem is i am left with chosing person A as i have NO CHOICE since person B would prefer to run his business.

This is what i am saying about apprenticeships. there should be a hell of a lot more of them.

I'd choose person A. B only has knowledge whereas A has wisdom and will acquire knowledge.

Cakeguts

westernpromise wrote: »

I'd choose person A. B only has knowledge whereas A has wisdom and will acquire knowledge.

Yes but only if they had been to a top university and could think for themselves. Someone from Sheffield Poly now would have done a course where they were spoon fed the information required to pass the course.

If Sheffield ex poly had actually still been a poly you might have chosen them because the chances are they would have done a sandwich course where the working part was already at your business and you knew them and knew that they understood your business.

economic

westernpromise wrote: »

I'd choose person A. B only has knowledge whereas A has wisdom and will acquire knowledge.

person A is very likely to be academic smart but not street smart. i prefer street smart and owning and running a business shows this.

westernpromise

economic wrote: »

person A is very likely to be academic smart but not street smart. i prefer street smart and owning and running a business shows this.

A business that's failed and left them in need of a job.

If you think you can diagnose the absence of street smart from the presence of a degree, GLWT, as the young people say.

Arklight

Cakeguts wrote: »

You seem to be a bit out of date. For medicine in the US you have to have a community college degree before you do the ACT or SAT thing. University courses in the US are four years. People do a community college degree and then transfer to a 4 year university course. There wouldn't be any point in them doing this if the community college degree was the same level. Universities that are in the state that you live in are free out of state education is paid for.

Basically you go to a community college to top up your education to a the standard required to get into a 4 year course if you haven't done the right level of courses at high school. The general high school diploma is about the level of GCSEs. US education has been dumbed down to this extent so that most students can graduate high school. Community college fills the gap for the people who have done the GCSE type courses to graduate high school. The students who have done all honours courses reach the standard of A level in the UK and miss out on going to community college and go straight to the 4 year courses. Community college is the equivalent of an A level course in the UK but starting at age 18. The university courses are 4 years because they start from such a low level and need to be 4 years to catch up.

I am hoping that I will be dead by the time that the UK education has been dumbed down to this level. It is already impossible to get any paperwork done first time correctly. I don't want to have to deal with people who can't get it right after the 3rd or 4th attempt or even getting them to tell me what I need to know and doing it myself......

What on earth are you talking about?

To do Medicine in the US you need to do Pre-Med.

You do a two year community college associate degree and transfer into the third year of a 4 year college degree, not the first one.

They're for kids who can't afford to do all 4 years in a 4 year college, don't want to, or don't have the grades to get into the place they want to go to and are hoping to get advanced standing via a foundation course.

If you fail high school you can go to community college and take your GED, or a plumbing course, or catering skills, or whatever else.

SATs and ACTs are taken at the end of senior high school and are used to enter the first year of college.

There is no free in state tuition unless you get a scholarship.

Cakeguts

Arklight wrote: »

What on earth are you talking about?

To do Medicine in the US you need to do Pre-Med.

You do a two year community college associate degree and transfer into the third year of a 4 year college degree, not the first one.

They're for kids who can't afford to do all 4 years in a 4 year college, don't want to, or don't have the grades to get into the place they want to go to and are hoping to get advanced standing via a foundation course.

If you fail high school you can go to community college and take your GED, or a plumbing course, or catering skills, or whatever else.

SATs and ACTs are taken at the end of senior high school and are used to enter the first year of college.

There is no free in state tuition unless you get a scholarship.

Thats nice......

I will just make sure I remember to tell my relative who lives in the US that he has got the education system that he sent his children through all wrong.......

It might also be a good idea for someone to tell the community colleges in the US that they need to run the courses that are done at trade schools so that they can stop muddling up people who live in the UK...

http://student-tutor.com/blog/what-are-the-differences-between-ap-and-honors-classes/ This explain the different levels of courses at high school and where they lead.

gfplux

Lingua wrote: »

I intend to finish an undergraduate degree in the UK, plus a Master's, and then do a second undergraduate degree abroad for a fraction of the cost. In fact, I could do four undergraduate degrees abroad for the same price as one year of university here. For me, the bigger question isn't why so many go to university (why shouldn't they? Education should be open to all), but rather why we allow such extortionately high tuition fees. Community colleges in America, the equivalent of our ex-polytechnics, are now cheaper. Let that sink in for a moment: university in the UK is now often more expensive than in America.

Lingua

Make sure you are resident in one of the EU27 before March 2019 which I understand is the cut of date for any "protection" under Citizens rights.
This will possibly mean starting your degree course in September 2018.

Lingua

gfplux wrote: »

Make sure you are resident in one of the EU27 before March 2019 which I understand is the cut of date for any "protection" under Citizens rights.
This will possibly mean starting your degree course in September 2018.

Several EU countries have no tuition fees, and instead charge admin fees (cost of enrolling etc.) at the same rate for both home/EU and international students. All I'll need is a long-stay visa. According to those who support Brexit, getting visas for EU countries will be a walk in the park, so I should have no troubles. /s

Incidentally, I will also be able to apply for citizenship and regain my EU citizenship too. Win-win all around really.

Lingua