Are degrees in the UK value for money?

economic

phillw wrote: »

And the employees would be forced to take those jobs.

The current system at least means the people are a bit more mature by the time they realise that they're not going to get the job they wanted.

The degree isn't the only thing you get out of University. A lot of comedians went to Cambridge for example, their degree is also useless. But without funding then you find it's only the rich people who get that kind of opportunity and is that what we want?

you can mature a lot quicker by working straight after alevels. you learn about discipline, money management, learn on the job skills, working in a team etc.

at uni you learn about how to use a camera to take photos and protest about LGBT issues every week.

you only fund/support the degrees that are going to be economically useful to this country. this means poor students who are good enough can still go to uni.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

It isn't an mse forum board.

You have half the media against you simply for the party you belong to
You also have at least 200,000 staff against you even I'd they know it's for the good
You have 300,000 kids in the year you implement being told no uni for you
You have all those kids parents and family against you

The biggest problem you will face is that while you might just about get a majority to Accept the idea you will find that almost everyone thinks its other students and other peoples kids who should not be going. I recall having a conversation with a group of students at Luton university and almost all agreed too many go and the sector should shrink but I doubt any of them thought they were the ones that were surplus to requirements which of course they definitely were the Ines that shouldn't go.

You will face an almost impossible task.
However give the students more options to use their £60-£80k loans and of the kids decode to spend the money elsewhere then nobody is going to blame the 17 year olds for picking to use their loans to start a business or buy abhiise instead of buying a business studies degree from Luton

yes i see your point. then i guess its just your idea or we crash and burn.

economic

Arklight wrote: »

That's rather putting your career at the mercy of your employer though, isn't it?


This might have been fine for baby boomers who could expect to walk into a company at 16, and out again 50 years later with a pension, but it's not really the same for young people now.


What will hopefully happen is that a government enters power that actually values the transformative effect of education and is willing to fund it again. I don't really care how they do this. Graduates earn more, make better decisions and have happier more stable lives.


Investing in Education is a no brainer.

what a load of crap.

employers can decide whoever they hire and fire. and why should they not?

graduates happier and earn more? it depends what stats you look at and how you interpret them.

economic

https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/photography

what kind of career advice is this?

no mention of costs of the degree, the median graduate salaries, how long it took to get the graduate jobs etc etc.

i know someone who takes photos for weddings. no degree. makes a lot of money and does his job well clearly.

economic

i look back to when i was at uni. it is a top uni and was a very tough course. i dont think i understood 90% of the lectures i attended. just went to lectures to take notes and thats it.

the job i went into was a technical role in banking. i certainly did not find the degree useful to do the job. alevel math would have been enough plus some on the job training which i got anyway.

SingleSue

economic wrote: »

its economic not Economic.

I am so sorry, it is a fault of my education that I have to start a name with a capital letter but I promise I will remember to get it right next time, even if it feels so very wrong.

Lingua

I intend to finish an undergraduate degree in the UK, plus a Master's, and then do a second undergraduate degree abroad for a fraction of the cost. In fact, I could do four undergraduate degrees abroad for the same price as one year of university here. For me, the bigger question isn't why so many go to university (why shouldn't they? Education should be open to all), but rather why we allow such extortionately high tuition fees. Community colleges in America, the equivalent of our ex-polytechnics, are now cheaper. Let that sink in for a moment: university in the UK is now often more expensive than in America.

Lingua

SingleSue

Arklight wrote: »

That's rather putting your career at the mercy of your employer though, isn't it?


This might have been fine for baby boomers who could expect to walk into a company at 16, and out again 50 years later with a pension, but it's not really the same for young people now.


What will hopefully happen is that a government enters power that actually values the transformative effect of education and is willing to fund it again. I don't really care how they do this. Graduates earn more, make better decisions and have happier more stable lives.


Investing in Education is a no brainer.

I'm with you on investing in your education.

I'm no baby boomer (for once I am too young!) and those days had gone by the time I left school but there are also jobs being advertised in the local area which require a degree where one was not required years ago. At the same time, there are apprenticeships which are also not required for the roles either!

However, there is the element of young people being forced to have a degree to achieve the same access my non baby boomer age group 'enjoyed' and that is a huge problem for our young adults.

phillw

economic wrote: »

the job i went into was a technical role in banking. i certainly did not find the degree useful to do the job. alevel math would have been enough plus some on the job training which i got anyway.

I went into IT, I didn't do a levels or a degree. No part of my education was of any use at all. By your argument we should abolish all schools because they have zero benefit.

SingleSue wrote: »

However, there is the element of young people being forced to have a degree to achieve the same access my non baby boomer age group 'enjoyed' and that is a huge problem for our young adults.

Being forced to get a degree to get a job is pretty good. The alternative is to be forced to have experience, which you can't get unless you can get a job. Which you can't because you have no experience. I did a training scheme, which were abolished due to public pressure.

Millennials feel left out because they can't all have it all, but baby boomers didn't all have it all either.

Filo25

phillw wrote: »

I went into IT, I didn't do a levels or a degree. No part of my education was of any use at all. By your argument we should abolish all schools because they have zero benefit.



Being forced to get a degree to get a job is pretty good. The alternative is to be forced to have experience, which you can't get unless you can get a job. Which you can't because you have no experience. I did a training scheme, which were abolished due to public pressure.

Millennials feel left out because they can't all have it all, but baby boomers didn't all have it all either.

Very true, boomers and those who followed just after did get free University education, but equally a lot fewer of us had the chance to go to University in the first place.

It's the expansion of Higher Education that has driven costs up to the point where fees were introduced, rather than some kid of bizarre inter-generational punishment as some seem to imagine.

I agree companies are being lazy now though in excessive use of having a degree as "signalling", that has always been there (when I left Uni in 1993 my job was only open to people with a degree), but there are a lot more jobs now where a degree would be wanted/expected.

Then again if we reduced the number of people going to University that would disappear pretty quickly, usually it isn't the case that employers think that students have learnt anything useful on their course, just that the employer like to see the graduate could be self motivated and reliant enough to get the grades needed to attend University and then go through a course with minimal hand holding and supervision and get a decent degree at the end of it.

The size and expense of the University system now is a bit excessive though to save company HR departments some time and hassle in identifying talent!

While I agree that we need to spend more money on education and training, I would rather see more investment on early years education and improved training, technical education and apprenticeship programmes rather than throwing ever more money at a bloated University sector.