Are degrees in the UK value for money?

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

I agree both a media studies and a mathematics degree are for the most part useless

The oxford students do well because even before oxford they were in the top 5% and the Luton students do badly because even before Luton they were in the bottom 5%. Of course there will be a distribution where a few oxford grads end up in the gutter and a few Luton grads become millionaires but on average your likely success is determined before university.

The real issue is should the government be funding degrees that will cos the tax payer £60,000-£80,000 directly and perhaps another £20,000 indirectly? Could the money not be better spent on the NHS or to lower the deficit?

Also for the students themselves surely most believe that their 3-4 year investment of time money and lost earnings are to better themselves financially in the future. If that is not happening they should be made aware of it. Right now a 17 year old needs to make an upto £80k cost decision on not much more than hope. We say adults were missold PPI and need to be compensated but a 17 year old sold a promise of a better future if they invest 4 years and £80k at luton they just need to suck it up?

i would say your success in life is pretty much determined by age 10

GreatApe

Cash-Cows wrote: »

Attending university isn't just about what job you get at the end, it really isn't.

When you buy something it is either consumption, investment or possibly insurance.

So are university degrees consumption, a 3-4 year holiday?
Are universities degrees investment, a 3-4 year sacrifice for a better future?
Or are they some form of insurance?

In most students parents and governments eyes it is meant to be an investment
The reality is that maybe only 10-20% of university places fit that bill
The other 80-90% are a mixture of insurance (hope) and consumption.

One of the problems is parents/kids believe if they dont go to university they will be unemployed for 3-4 maybe more years. They need to be told that is not the case unemployment levels even for the youth are very low in the UK.

westernpromise

You need two Cs at Lu'on to do either of two Media degrees. The lowest possible would be two Es, I guess.

economic

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Looking at the Maths syllabus at Oxford, I'm pretty sure there are some exceptionally useful jobs you could walk into - https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/mathematics?wssl=1#

i did a maths degree at a top uni. if i look back even though the content wasn't useful to me (and by far most jobs out there), it was the logical reasoning part of it that was useful to me in both my jobs and my personal life.

if i did a media studies degree i would only be limited to a job in media so you are really restricting yourself, particularly for a job which is expected to pay not that much. you are learning some things about the media you can easily do as an apprentice or watching youtube videos. or some online course costing next to nothing. why would you want to pay 9k for such a course?

now im not saying the maths degree at a top uni should cost 9k a year but it is at least worth a lot more then a media studies degree due to the choice of jobs afterwards paying a high wage.

westernpromise

Although I reckon if you were my mate who has passed 30+ CSEs Lu'on would probably take you.

[Deleted User]

economic wrote: »

i did a maths degree at a top uni. if i look back even though the content wasn't useful to me (and by far most jobs out there), it was the logical reasoning part of it that was useful to me in both my jobs and my personal life.

There's very few jobs that need the ENTIRE degree syllabus in your head. I use very little of my Genetics BSc, in my job in IT - but it does occasionally come in use. An ability to compile information, research, pull out relevant details and collate it all - doesn't matter which degree I'd done, it's a useful ability.

Most degrees are [Skills] + [Knowledge]. It's important to pick one that gives you the balance you want.

economic

ringo_24601 wrote: »

There's very few jobs that need the ENTIRE degree syllabus in your head. I use very little of my Genetics BSc, in my job in IT - but it does occasionally come in use. An ability to compile information, research, pull out relevant details and collate it all - doesn't matter which degree I'd done, it's a useful ability.

Most degrees are [Skills] + [Knowledge]. It's important to pick one that gives you the balance you want.

its more the hard skills you develop doing such a degrees that are useful not the content (unless you do something vocational or do something in that field of study).

i would say you develop a lot more hard skills doing a maths degree then doing a media studies degree.

[Deleted User]

economic wrote: »

its more the hard skills you develop doing such a degrees that are useful not the content (unless you do something vocational or do something in that field of study).

i would say you develop a lot more hard skills doing a maths degree then doing a media studies degree.

Now, that's the answer I'd expect from someone in maths...

Soft skills.. presentation, networking, reading people - those are so damn important in rising through the ranks. Hell, within 2 years of graduating I was presenting at an international conference infront of 200 people. I wouldn't fancy doing that without a bit of prep at uni. I'm still hopeless at networking and reading people though!

economic

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Now, that's the answer I'd expect from someone in maths...

Soft skills.. presentation, networking, reading people - those are so damn important in rising through the ranks. Hell, within 2 years of graduating I was presenting at an international conference infront of 200 people. I wouldn't fancy doing that without a bit of prep at uni.

you dont need to pay 9k a year on a course to prep you for that. there are far cheaper direct course that can teach you all that. in fact companies usually provide training for that sort of stuff. most people can get good at it fast without a degree.

a maths degree is a bit more different. its basically proof that a person has a higher iq then someone who did a media studies degree. and therefore is employable for most jobs in the current economy. it also develops the hard skills as well, but for employers all they want is a way to easily filter candidates ot get the brightest, and a tough degree from a good uni is probably the easiest and best way to do this.

economic

i would say its best to ban all forms of social science degrees (including economics) and only have hard sciences taught. you can still have some humanaties degrees like history and art and geography but only at the universities who are the best at it.

reaosn being is social science courses are very subjective. how can you grade people based on how the examiner is feeling on the day he marks the papers?