Are degrees in the UK value for money?

economic

westernpromise wrote: »

It's worth remembering that back when we had GCEs and CSEs, fewer than 50% of pupils sat GCEs, and many fewer still sat three A Levels. Today, 50% are expected to go to university. This necessarily means that we are now sending to university people who, 30 years ago, would have been considered unable to pass an A-Level and within those quite a few who could not even have passed an O-Level.

One does wonder what that element of the university cohort stands to gain from a university degree. For CSE candidates of yesteryear to graduate from a latter-day degree course, the degree clearly has to be dumbed down to a level of simplicity such that even a CSE candidate can pass finals. It's hard to avoid the conclusion that some degrees must be equivalent in marketable value to a handful of CSEs.

not to mention GCE and alevels back then were much tougher then is curently.

Cash-Cows

I don't have a degree. I studied professional qualifications, which my employer paid for. Do I regret not having a degree? Yes. Every day.

michaels

Cash-Cows wrote: »

I don't have a degree. I studied professional qualifications, which my employer paid for. Do I regret not having a degree? Yes. Every day.

But do you regret it 60k quids worth?

Cakeguts

westernpromise wrote: »

It's worth remembering that back when we had GCEs and CSEs, fewer than 50% of pupils sat GCEs, and many fewer still sat three A Levels. Today, 50% are expected to go to university. This necessarily means that we are now sending to university people who, 30 years ago, would have been considered unable to pass an A-Level and within those quite a few who could not even have passed an O-Level.

One does wonder what that element of the university cohort stands to gain from a university degree. For CSE candidates of yesteryear to graduate from a latter-day degree course, the degree clearly has to be dumbed down to a level of simplicity such that even a CSE candidate can pass finals. It's hard to avoid the conclusion that some degrees must be equivalent in marketable value to a handful of CSEs.

This as far as I am concerned is the major problem. The degrees have been dumbed down now to such an extent that around 75 of the universities in the UK offer qualifications are basically only worth a few CSEs or a couple of A levels. Someone recently announced that they had got a masters degree starting from the basis of 3 GCSEs. This doesn't make sense to me because you have to matriculate to start a first degree and you can't do this unless you have at least 5 GCSEs including maths and English so that masters degree isn't actually worth anything because the qualifications to start the first degree that led to the masters were too low. So we now have people paying for a 1st degree and 2nd degree that are on completion worth nothing. That is a massive waste of money and more importantly time.

It appears that students are not being told that if you don't get good GCSE and A level results that this impacts on the quality of all future qualifications built onto them. So 5 GCSEs at grade C or whatever that is now will lead to 3 A levels at C or below that will lead to a university degree that isn't as one person said recently worth as much as the envelope the certificate came in. Students are also not being told that not all universities offer degrees that offer the same opportunities. This is not fair. No one should be expected to get into debt for at least £27k without knowing what they are paying for and many of them don't seem to know.

We need some institutions that will be like the old Polytechnics and technical colleges so that students can see that their courses lead to qualifications in actual jobs unlike subjects like Media Studies, Journalism, Fashion, Drama, Game Design etc which look as if they do but don't.

PixelPound

Cash-Cows wrote: »

I don't have a degree. I studied professional qualifications, which my employer paid for. Do I regret not having a degree? Yes. Every day.

If that's the case, then why not do it part time? You can still get a degree, and a student loan to cover the fees, especially as you have no debt from your professional qualifications. Doing it part time also means you can carry working.:D

HampshireH

When I was at uni 10 years ago I paid £3k fees per year.

Year 1 - In halls and had 16-20 hours a week lectures allowed me to work a job
Year 2 - In shared house and had 12-16 hours a week lectures allowed me to work a job
Year 3 - Went home and commuted as had 4 hours a week lectures so I worked 2 jobs as well!

Our lecturers would fail to turn up or cancel lectures at least once a fortnight in all 3 years. The lectures they delivered by reading directly from a powerpoint (which was put online when they remembered)

I firmly believe I could have studied for my degree distance learning and passed in at least half the time. The most time needed was for the dissertation which was completed with no support from the assigned tutor.

For my I got my degree, went on to do a masters 3 years ago distance learning and neither are used in my day to day role. However 10 years ago just having the qualification got me my job. Now neither are relevant but I have remained employed over the years - so for me that degree was important.

However it was not worth the money for the time the uni put into us. I certainly wouldn't pay today's rates for the same level of service

kabayiri

Well, DD starts Uni in a few weeks time, and I can definitely say it is not value for money.

Why so definite?

Because, until the experience has delivered back £60K ish work benefits (mostly salary + factor in interest), it is purely speculative.

I understand Martin Lewis and his 'cheap loan money' argument.

But now students are not students ... they are consumers, and they are entitled to judge the education product like any other product.

In a true product marketplace, the rubbish Uni's would fail, and their bosses would be fired. Can't see that happening alas. It's too much of a gravy train right now.

BobQ

Whether something is worth the money is for the degree holder to judge.

Some go to uni for the fun of it - relatives pay the tab.
Some go to get a qualification that almost guarantees a lucrative career - a medical degree for example - they pay the tab and earn the salary that justifies it.
Some go and take an easy degree, get a mediocre pass and then whine about the cost when they should never have gone in the first place.

VFM is very much in the eye of the beholder

Carl31

Uni is probably the biggest gamble anyone can take in their life

You saddle yourself up with £30k-£40k of debt potentially, in the hope it brings you a lucrative career

But how many actually end up in their chosen field? for many reasons, the majority dont, and that education is wasted, they end up in a totally unrelated career that their degree attributed nothing to, they may as well have gone straight into work

I think University needs to be revised in this country, into career specific subjects. Im a qualified accountant, by qualification pretty much exactly matches what i do in work day to day, why not tailor degree courses in a similar way?

zagubov

In another subforum, another poster has posted the info that you can get a part-time student loan to study an Open University degree part-time if your first degree isn't proving useful for finding a job. There are conditions, mainly that the new degree is in an approved subject, usually a STEM subject or similar that may be of use to the NHS.

It might go some way for repairing the poor degree choices some have made in the past.