Are degrees in the UK value for money?

BananaRepublic

zagubov wrote: »

It's probably best to ask, why are universities' costs any different from attending an independent boarding school for several years.

It's totally different. I went to Imperial College to study physics. Lectures usually contained 200 people. The quality of tuition was poor, lectures were often badly presented, and hard to follow. There was not much tuition in groups, an hour or two per week in groups of three I think. Facilities were not good. I also did a PhD in physics at Cambridge. I sometimes did small tutorial groups with undergraduates, I was paid quite well, but only ~£2,000 per year at todays prices. I think they charge what they can, and good unis will reinvest that money to buy new buildings. Of course senior managers get paid a lot and that is possibly a large part of the cost. Vice chancellors can get paid a fortune. Oink oink.

economic

BananaRepublic wrote: »

It's totally different. I went to Imperial College to study physics. Lectures usually contained 200 people. The quality of tuition was poor, lectures were often badly presented, and hard to follow. There was not much tuition in groups, an hour or two per week in groups of three I think. Facilities were not good. I also did a PhD in physics at Cambridge. I sometimes did small tutorial groups with undergraduates, I was paid quite well, but only ~£2,000 per year at todays prices. I think they charge what they can, and good unis will reinvest that money to buy new buildings. Of course senior managers get paid a lot and that is possibly a large part of the cost. Vice chancellors can get paid a fortune. Oink oink.

What year did you graduate from your undergrad?

Cakeguts

https://www.ucu.org.uk/vcpay Might be and idea to boycott universities that don't provide information in case they a) are so bad at paperwork that they can't provide it or b) they have something that they seriously want to hide. Most of them are duds anyway.

economic

Cakeguts wrote: »

https://www.ucu.org.uk/vcpay Might be and idea to boycott universities that don't provide information in case they a) are so bad at paperwork that they can't provide it or b) they have something that they seriously want to hide. Most of them are duds anyway.

Even the ones that provided the minutes redacted a lot of the contents. Of course all universities want to remain competitive with pay but since they are being funded by the taxpayer shouldn’t the pay be set by the taxpayer???

The higher education system in this country has got to be one the biggest scams going.

BananaRepublic

economic wrote: »

What year did you graduate from your undergrad?

1984. Ten years later it was no different. I doubt it has changed much today, except that senior managers get paid much more.

economic

BananaRepublic wrote: »

1984. Ten years later it was no different. I doubt it has changed much today, except that senior managers get paid much more.

From what my friend was saying when he studied there back in 2004, he had a similar experience to you. So yes things have not changed much.

The price you pay for the education is for the brand name (combination of the uni and course), not for the education itself. Which is why so many people get ripped off going to the weaker universities.

reeac

economic wrote: »

Its simply a huge mis-allocation of capital. Imagine what we can do with the wealth instead of being wasted in the higher education system.

A great deal of this deluxe student accommodation in London is aimed at and occupied by foreign students from wealthy families. That's a useful source of foreign currency for the uk assuming that it doesn't all disappear off to tax havens.

economic

reeac wrote: »

A great deal of this deluxe student accommodation in London is aimed at and occupied by foreign students from wealthy families. That's a useful source of foreign currency for the uk assuming that it doesn't all disappear off to tax havens.

The wealthy foreign students are not going to go to Luton uni. They will go to one of the top 5 or 10 unis in the uk. These are pretty much concentrated in London, Cambridge and Oxford. Some of the house price and rent appreciation we have seen is because of the demand for housing from these foreign students.

Sure the foreign student pays for all the tuition fees themselves (i think 3 times the normal fee) but this money goes to the university to pay for wages etc. There is also obviously some benefit to the local economy as the foreign student would be buying goods and services whilst studying. However they also get effectively free healthcare, get to use the city's public infrastrsucture etc. So its highly debatable what the net impact for the taxpayer is. The university benefits for sure though. But the local town and the uk taxpayer highly debatable.

GreatApe

economic wrote: »

The wealthy foreign students are not going to go to Luton uni. They will go to one of the top 5 or 10 unis in the uk. These are pretty much concentrated in London, Cambridge and Oxford. Some of the house price and rent appreciation we have seen is because of the demand for housing from these foreign students.

Sure the foreign student pays for all the tuition fees themselves (i think 3 times the normal fee) but this money goes to the university to pay for wages etc. There is also obviously some benefit to the local economy as the foreign student would be buying goods and services whilst studying. However they also get effectively free healthcare, get to use the city's public infrastrsucture etc. So its highly debatable what the net impact for the taxpayer is. The university benefits for sure though. But the local town and the uk taxpayer highly debatable.

Everyone in the UK benefits from foreign students bringing in £100k-£200k helping the balance of trade. If we had fewer such students we would actually have to do some real work in return for all the stuff we import.

If the UK could somehow convince 300,000 foreign students to come to the UK each year and reduce domestic students by 300,000 a year that would greatly improve our prospects. The pound would probably go back towards $1.70 and most the deficit would be gone.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

Everyone in the UK benefits from foreign students bringing in £100k-£200k helping the balance of trade. If we had fewer such students we would actually have to do some real work in return for all the stuff we import.

If the UK could somehow convince 300,000 foreign students to come to the UK each year and reduce domestic students by 300,000 a year that would greatly improve our prospects. The pound would probably go back towards $1.70 and most the deficit would be gone.

that's true. when i said debatable i meant i would need to see the numbers but i think the cost of providing free healthcare and other public services is more then outweighed by the money they do bring in. I think that much is obvious so you are absolutely correct.

yes if we were to cut the local students that would be good. Im all for people studying tough courses at uni so at least some ocan do research in that subject, and this usually means keeping the top 10 unis and scrapping the rest.