Do I have to pay ?

[Deleted User]

I need some advice please.

The scenario is we have a leasehold flat for which we have paid many thousands of pounds in service charges over a period of 8yrs or so for various works from redecoration and repairs , damp works following a leak and lastly fulfilling fire safety regulations.

Anyway £700 or so was demanded last year to pay for fire safety measures. So far so good but this is where it gets complicated.

The Freehold was then sold to another Freeholder at auction who has now demanded I pay the £700, so this is where I want to know if I have to pay
1, we had a health and safety inspection by the council who have said no fire safety measures have been done so obviously they need doing for which we will have to pay . Fair enough they need doing , the building has to be safe.
2, I had no relation to the new Freeholder and as the works weren't done they aren't out of pocket.
3, the freeholder has confirmed the fire safety works weren't done and neither does it look like much of the other work we paid for.

So will I have to pay twice, once to pay off this service charge and again to actually get the work done.

Also do we have any comeback on the original Freeholder for not doing works we paid for.

I always thought property management was a regulated industry but apparently not, the council said they'd taken the first freeholder to court over problems they had with other properties he managed .

So it's such a long post.

AnotherJoe

It's not clear from your post but did you pay £700 to the first freeholder ?
And assuming so, have you asked them for it back ?

[Deleted User]

No I didn't pay it to the first freeholder but it is the second demanding it but the work wasn't done. The second freeholder wants me to pay the £700 to them and then pay again when they get the work done.

eddddy

BBH123 wrote: »

So will I have to pay twice, once to pay off this service charge and again to actually get the work done.

A service charge reflects what the freeholder has spent doing what the lease says they must do.

If you ask them, the freeholder must provide a summary of how the service charge is worked out, and let you see the relevant invoices/receipts. (If they don't, they're committing a criminal offence.)

Once you've seen this invoices and receipts, you should be able to see what each £700 charge relates to.

bouicca21

It might be worth reading up on the consultation requirements regardingbmajor works.

http://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/section-20-consultation-for-private-landlords-resident-management-companies-and-their-agents/

[Deleted User]

eddddy wrote: »

A service charge reflects what the freeholder has spent doing what the lease says they must do.

If you ask them, the freeholder must provide a summary of how the service charge is worked out, and let you see the relevant invoices/receipts. (If they don't, they're committing a criminal offence.)

Once you've seen this invoices and receipts, you should be able to see what each £700 charge relates to.

They have admitted to me the works haven't been done so they don't have invoices or receipts . I can't understand why they think they can take me to court when they have no proof of any expenditure . All they keep saying was if I had an issue with payment that I should have taken it up with the previous freeholder . The thing is though I didn't have an issue until the council inspection highlighted no work was done .

lonestar1

How do you expect the freeholder to pay for work before they have collected the money ?

(do you have a sinking fund?)

[Deleted User]

bouicca21 wrote: »

It might be worth reading up on the consultation requirements regardingbmajor works.

http://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/section-20-consultation-for-private-landlords-resident-management-companies-and-their-agents/

Thankyou . I find this site very useful for outlining what should happen and what processes to follow but not so useful when things are outside the norm.

I wasn't issued with a Sec 20 for additional works by the previous Freeholder but the new one who wants the money says that's not their problem.

Apparently these type of freeholders but bulk loads of freehold at auction and he had 2500 thousand of them so how he thought he'd be able to manage them effectively goodness only knows and I've seen a tribunal case where reference was made to his chaotic paperwork and recording of information .

[Deleted User]

lonestar1 wrote: »

How do you expect the freeholder to pay for work before they have collected the money ?

(do you have a sinking fund?)

That's not the issue here please read the thread .

NeilCr

Has the new freeholder taken over and there is a deficit in the account? It sort of sounds like the old freeholder didn't collect all the service charges if you didn't pay the first £700. Was there a reason you didn't pay? Are you sure that the £700 refers specifically to the fire safety measures - or is there a general shortfall if there is one?

I can get where the new freeholder is coming from, to be honest. It doesn't necessarily make it right and it would appear the old freeholder was lax.. Have you seen accounts from last year?

Sorry about all the questions but it is, as you realise, a bit of a muddled situation

[Deleted User]

Thanks for your response Neil I'll answer as best as I can .

I can't be totally sure that it is from fire safety but that was the last piece of work we were charged for and there was no other service charges outstanding .

It is very difficult to confirm anything tbh.

The previous freeholder issued a sec 20 for major works about 8 years ago and then letters were received for additional works for damp a couple of years later and then another letter saying they were now doing all the recommendations following a fire safety survey and our portion was about 900.

We have had no accounts , receipts , invoicing , quotes in fact anything to show any confirmation . The works haven't been done as confirmed by the council inspectorate and the new Freeholder has confirmed in an email they haven't been
done , they won't enter into any discussion about where the 700 has arisen from just keep saying it was up to me to sort it with previous freeholder if I had a problem with it. I didn't have a problem with the previous freeholder or paying until the council advised it hadn't been done .

I don't and nor it seems do they have any idea where this stems from but I am surmising it's the fire safety as that was the last demand for money and no other service charges were outstanding .

I have asked for proof of where it originated from but no one can say.