Delegating executor duties?

barbiedoll

My elderly aunt died at the weekend. She left a will which names my mum as executor with me next in line if my mum can't do it (i.e. if she is no longer around, the will was written several years ago)

My mum is still around but is 80 years old. The thought of contacting pension departments, the council, banks and utility suppliers, is very daunting to her, she is obviously very upset and is not very confident on the phone, dealing with something like this.

I'm more than willing to do so but will I be legally able to? I suppose I could just call everyone and pretend to be my mum but I'd rather do things properly, especially if we have to visit banks or council offices etc.

Do we have to get anything in writing or can she just say something like "Please can you speak to my daughter on my behalf"?

Thanks for any help, this is the first time we've had to deal with this and we just want to help my mum to get through it with as little hassle as possible.

Hermia

Are you both named as executors on the will? I have not seen a will where it names one and then has one as back-up so I am not sure about that. Usually they just have a list of people. If you are listed on there then you can do it all. When you apply for probate there is a form available which allows an executor to renounce their position. You just fill it in and get your mum to sign up. I did that when my mum died because the other executor was not living in the area at the time.

P.S. When you ring companies etc to inform them of the death they don't ask whether you are executor at all. They just want the death certificate and/or probate.

getmore4less

depending on the exact wording there will be a number of of options.

The probate or letters of administration document is called the grant.

A simple option is to take out the grant in your name with POA for your mum.

Very simple procedure using the standard forms.

most institutions will allow inquiries on sight of the death certificate you need to do those to fill in the IHT forms.

the issue with that option is that if mum dies technically you are supposed to apply for the grant again but who will know?

There are other options like mum can renounce and the next in line can take over.


Everything will be much easier if you get the grant in your name.

barbiedoll

Thanks for replies, this is exactly what I wanted to know.

I'm not a "back-up" executor, I would have been the exeutor if anything had happened to my mum before my aunt died.

I'll look into getting the grant in my name which sounds like the way to go.


Thanks again for the help

Tuesday_Tenor

First of all, will the estate need to go through probate? Roughly what sort of value will it be, and what will it consist of? Any shares? A house?

You will be able to achieve what you and Mum want, with you acting either instead of her, or for her.
The exact wording to guide you, though, will vary depending on exactly what the original arrangement is, and I'm still not clear whether/how you are mentioned in the will in relation to executorship.

barbiedoll wrote: »

I would have been the exeutor if anything had happened to my mum before my aunt died.

To me that implies you are mention re in the will as a back-up executor.
Or do you mean if anything had happened to you mum then you aunt would have changed her will /added a codicil to make you an executor?

I THINK what you're actually saying is that the only executor named in the will is you mother.

Could you clarify these points before we start guiding you, as we could confuse you by using the wrong terms for you situation.

Brighty

If you're not named in the will and are just assuming you would be executor because you are the next closest relative or the named executors daughter, then you would not be an executor, executors must be named in a will.

If your mum was no longer around, you could take on the probate duties, but you would be the 'administrator' and apply for 'letters of administration' rather than an executor applying for 'grant of probate'.

The upshot of that amounts to the same thing, but it's important to get get to grips with the different terminology.

What you could do is get your mum to 'renounce' her position as executor, leaving you free to apply for letters of administration as administrator.

It's what i did when my parents passed away just a couple of months apart. Named executors were my elderly aunt and uncle and my older brother who lived in Germany. I was not named as i was under 18 when the wills were written. It made alot more sense for me to do everything, so I wrote a renunciation letter for each of them, got them to sign it and then applied for LOA myself as administrator. Was all fairly straight forward.

Wording of the renunciation letter needs to be quite specific, i just googled it, but can post it up if required

Brighty

Tuesday_Tenor

Barbiedoll

Letters of Administration with Will Annexed

is what Brighty has outlined, and is what may be relevant to your situation.

'Letters of Administration' is what you apply for when there is no will (I.e. the estate is intestate).

However it is ALSO the term used, 'with will annexed', when there IS a will but none of the named executors can take on the role, but someone else (from a hierarchy of eligibility) who was NOT named in the will, takes in the role, as 'Administrator'.

But I wanted to avoid getting into this much detail until the facts were absolutely clear.

barbiedoll

Once again, thanks for all replies. I'm sorry I haven't been back sooner but we've had a long week with one thing and another.

To clarify...it's a simple estate, no property, just a couple of bank accounts (around £14,000 total) some bank shares worth around £600, a private pension, a State pension and personal stuff (nothing valuable, just sentimental to us)

There's no arguments, everything goes to my mum, we're sharing out the personal effects and will clear her flat out in the next week or so.

The wording of the will is as follows:

I give the whole of my estate to my sister (my mum's name and address) and I appoint her to be my executrix, but should this gift fail (I assume this means if my mum was no longer around?) the following provisions shall apply instead

I appoint my niece (my name and address) as my substitute executrix and Trustee

etc etc.

We have filled in an online form to inform the bank and will be calling the pension providers tomorrow. We will do most of this stuff in the presence of my mum anyway so if they need to speak to her personally, they can do so and she can pass over authority if needed.

We're very lucky in the sense that there is no property or huge sums of money to worry about, nor do we have any grasping relatives waiting in the wings. But it's still hard, isn't it?

Am very grateful for the help on here

Tuesday_Tenor

For the small size and nature of the estate, and the way the executorship was set up in the will, I would just proceed as you are doing, helping mum, getting her to sign the required paperwork etc.

Most institutions will release funds of that size without probate, using their own paperwork instead.

The element that normally WOULD need probate will be the shares. But even there for such a 'small' holding, you might find they have an alternative mechanism ... Worth asking anyway before starting down the probate route.

A sad and busy time; take care of yourselves.

Tuesday_Tenor

Just note, though, that as Mum has started acting as executor, signing for the bank account funds etc, she can't subsequently officially renounce and hand the task over to you.

So if probate IS needed for the shares, it will be with Mum as executor. (So you can ignore the info about YOU applying for LoA with will annexed).

But you can of course help by preparing all the paperwork for her.

IF you do have to go for probate for the shares, you'll need the PA1 form and IHT205 form, and their associated notes, all of which you can find online. Although there will be no inheritance tax to pay, you'll still have to fill in the form for IHT. And although the notes will look daunting, for this simple estate, most of the sections will not be relevant at all.

Hope it won't come to needing probate; just pointing you in the right direction in case it does.