Blocked drains in communal drains - who should pay

Clemnise

Hi all,

Grateful for any advice/ thoughts:

I live in a rented one bed flat in a terraced type complex. Essentially 6 flats share one entrance.

In Nov 2016 we had our yearly inspection and the person attending casually asked if our drains were okay now - I said that we had not had any problems and she said that she was probably getting confused with another flat.

Two weeks later we received a written demand for £90 from the agency, as reportedly the drains had been blocked due the 1 of the 6 flats putting fat down the drains. Turns out that our pipes/ drains are communal - so they don't know who was responsible.

We ran this past the free lawyer service at work who categorically said that we were not obligated to pay this, as our contract did not state all tenants were jointly liable for communal areas. We were advised to send the invoice to the landlord which we did.

However the agency are not letting this go...

Aside from this, I did not have any problems with my shower/ sink etc outlets (and I am on the bottom flat!), I don't put fat down the sink, I don't know when the issues occurred, I have not seen any evidence of an invoice/ monies paid, that comparison quotes were obtained and I wasn't even sent a courtesy email about the problem.

The landlord has apparently paid 50% of the bill which means it cost £900 to Dyno - this seems a lot ?! Should his insurance cover this?

Essentially while £90 is not a huge amount, it is a 1/3rd of my monthly disposable income, and the rent has gone up by £50/ month... should I just bite the bullet and pay or is it unreasonable?

Sorry for length of post!

G_M

Clemnise wrote: »

We were advised to send the invoice to the landlord which we did.

I assume you also sent a covering letter. What did it say?

Assuming that

a) you clearly stated that you accepted no liability for the invoice, and explained why, and

b) you copied the agency in on the letter, then

you need take no further action.

Ignore.

davidmcn

Clemnise wrote: »

it cost £900 to Dyno - this seems a lot ?!

Ever so slightly. We had communal drain cleaned recently. Total cost £60.

It's a common repair for the landlords anyway unless there's definitely something caused by you.

sparky130a

Clemnise wrote: »

The landlord has apparently paid 50% of the bill which means it cost £900 to Dyno - this seems a lot ?! Should his insurance cover this?

:rotfl:

It didn't, it really didn't.....

Hoploz

I have no idea how this bill has been passed through the agent to you. This is part of the flat owner's service charge, payable by your landlord (I assume) to his freeholder. Nothing to do with you whatsoever!

However I think it's odd that the agent brought this up first when they came round before you knew about it. makes me wonder whether the previous occupant reported it to the agent ages ago.

But no, nothing to do with you is my view (I'm a landlord and have owned and lived in various flats.)

Clemnise

Thanks for replies, really appreciated - my plumbing terminology is probably quite awful!

G_M - bizarrely the lawyer said to only return the invoice to the landlord with a one liner stating 'For attention of the landlord as per maintenance responsibilities'. She told us not to engage any further. The agency have been told that verbally - although I have cracked and now started emailing them as they are unwilling to accept non payment.

davidmcn and sparky130a - yes i suspected that insurance might not pay out for 'misuse'. Which is why they are asking the tenants to pay. section 21 - keep plumbing/ drainage clear etc.

Clemnise

Latest correspondence from agency:

1. There is no way of telling who has or has not put fat or other similar substances down the drains as the pipes are linked to each other. Therefor I can not see if it was or wasn’t yourselves. If it could have been pinpointed then of course I would have only charged that particular tenant.
2. I am fully aware that you do not have a contract with all the other tenants in the block. In your contract with the landlord it states you are to keep the pipes of the property clear.
3. Again it does state in your contract that you are to keep the drains, gutters and pipes clear.
4. Just because you have not experienced any problems with your plumbing does not mean that you will not in the future nor if the situation wasn’t tackled as soon as it was then you could well of had problems.
5. As the issue was an emergency I did not get the chance to call all six properties and explain the issue to each individual tenant. It was more important to resolve the issue as soon as possible.
6. I had two companies attend the building, the first company was unable to resolve the problem and the second one was. Again as it was an emergency I did not have a chance to call multiple companies and arrange for them to come and give me a quote etc.
7. As the damage was caused by the tenants this was not covered in the building insurance.

I still havent seen the invoice from the plumber for £900... I have asked.

Not sure what to do, I am also worried that they are also holding our latest annual contract as hostage as i still havent received a signed copy

Hoploz

So when you said 'agency' it isn't a letting agent, it is a management agency dealing with the whole block?

I still see it as freeholder's responsibility (whoever owns the block) and this will be collected in turn from the leaseholders (are the flats owned by separate landlords, or does this agency also own the block?)

Not the tenants renting the flats, unless it can be proven that someone in particular is to blame (impossible in these circumstances as blockages can occur anywhere down the drain not directly below the guilty party's flat - and it will be cumulative anyway over years.)

Clemnise

Hmm, i still think that you would call it a letting agency. It just so happens that the landlord owns all 6 flats and the agency manages all of them.

So they are saying in effect - we don't know who it was, so you all have to pay. Presumably because the plumber said it was due to build up of fat they are taking the line of 'misuse' and the therefore it is the tenants responsibility (not the landlord - although he has paid 50% of the 'apparent but unsubstantiated' £900)

G_M

Clemnise wrote: »

Not sure what to do, I am also worried that they are also holding our latest annual contract as hostage as i still havent received a signed copy

As advised - ignore.

She told us not to engage any further.

You have already responded appropriately so there is no point repeating yourself, or enguaging in a pointless exchange of letters/emails /whatever.

File it and orget till the next one comes, and then file that too.

bizarrely the lawyer said to only return the invoice to the landlord with a one liner stating 'For attention of the landlord as per maintenance responsibilities'.

That's not far off the same as my advice was.

edit: when does your current contract end? Read:


* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Clemnise

Thats an amazing link - thank-you G_M

We have signed a 12 month fixed term (ending Nov 2017) with a 6 month break clause. We have signed it, I do not know if the landlord has.

So presuming that our fixed term contract is valid, I understand that the landlord cannot terminate the contract before the 6 month point (using S21).

However the landlord could take one to court to evict under S8
Ground 12 = Any obligation of the tenancy (other than one related to the payment of rent) has been broken or not performed.

Which comes back to the grey area of the tenants responsibly to keep drains/ pipes etc clear and not misuse them.Which is fine when 1 property - 1 drain..