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HELP Vcs private land pcn derby

loosegoose
loosegoose Posts: 42 Forumite
edited 9 January 2017 at 10:46PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
hi, I received a vcs pnc windscreen ticket yesterday for parking on private land, the driver was less than two minutes whilst delivering a parcel to one of the properties and returned to find a pcn with a £100 charge! iv read through some of the threads on here but would like some advice as where to start contesting this ticket, what do I have to do first? thanks

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 153,255 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 9 January 2017 at 10:55PM
    Read the NEWBIES thread and send the IPC firms version of appeal, adding that the driver (third person, not naming them) was delivering a parcel (show proof, if possible). Mention Jopson v Home Guard as a case supporting the appeal. It was held in that persuasive Appeal case, that delivering or unloading at residential car parks is not parking and to prevent such normal activity as deliveries, makes living in flats 'unworkable' and a parking charge in such circumstances disregards rights of way and lawful access to the flats.

    Quote Senior Circuit Judge Charles Harris QC from that case, which is linked & explained here:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

    Do not say 'I' and do not imply who parked/delivered the parcel. show us first what you intend to submit, which MUST include your name and postal address as keeper (of course) and the PCN number.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,474 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Wow, it's only 7 minutes since I posted this on the other thread you asked the same question.
    but would like some advice as where to start contesting this ticket, what do I have to do first
    Two things:

    1. Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 at this stage, which will take you through what to do to fight this.
    2. Start your own thread if you have any questions after reading the sticky. Forum rules are one case, one thread please.
    There's no way you can read and understand the sticky in that time.

    This isn't a difficult process, but there are no quick fixes, no one-liners to get you off this charge - it will take some legwork from you. You will get more positive responses from regulars if you are seen to be following advice and doing the suggested research.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • appolgies for posting same question twice new to this forum stuff
  • Half_way
    Half_way Posts: 7,491 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I will be in Derby ( unfortunatly) this weekend, where was it??
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
  • just at the back of the racecourse park off Nairn ave, there is little blocks of flats that t off the main drag with car parks
  • ok I have read through the newbies section, so basically if I choose to appeal I don't do anything for 25 days from receiving ticket, I have a couple of questions,first being how long is this process likely to take and how likely am I to win and have the ticket cancelled? also if I loose the appeal how likely is it that I end up going to court and would I then be expected to pay the original £100 charge plus court costs? thanks.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 153,255 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 15 January 2017 at 12:22AM
    loosegoose wrote: »
    hi, I received a vcs pnc windscreen ticket yesterday for parking on private land, the driver was less than two minutes whilst delivering a parcel to one of the properties and returned to find a pcn with a £100 charge! iv read through some of the threads on here but would like some advice as where to start contesting this ticket, what do I have to do first? thanks
    Delivering a parcel to a flat is implied under the rights of way at the site, likely allowing people like you to pass and re-pass as long as you were using an area intended for vehicular access.

    In fact I would wait for the Notice to Keeper in this case, let them get your DVLA data first, if you are the keeper, then appeal within a couple of weeks of that Notice to Keeper, using the template appeal for IPC firms.

    And adding that 'the driver' was delivering a parcel which is covered by easements/rights of access to the flats, which take precedence over any third party parking signs (ref the Jopson case). I've already shown you that case in my first reply and we must assume you have read & understood the Prankster's Blog about defending private PCNs at residential sites.
    how long is this process likely to take and how likely am I to win and have the ticket cancelled?
    No chance. And you will NOT be recommended here to try IAS stage at all, so don't go there. VCS are like a dog with a bone and will not just cancel, but the point is to let them get your DVLA data (assuming you are the registered keeper) as you may have grounds later to sue them for data misuse and claim or counter-claim a 3 figure sum in compensation. Yep, money for you. So play this right.
    also if I loose the appeal how likely is it that I end up going to court and would I then be expected to pay the original £100 charge plus court costs?
    Probably will go to a small claim but a residential one where the person was delivering a parcel is covered by the Jopson case and in my view, VCS would find this hard to win... If this was a friend's flat, ask them for a copy of their Tenancy Agreement now, ready for your defence, as the wording about parking - even silence about parking but a clause or two about allowing 'access' or 'quiet enjoyment of the property' - will be vital to show no contract to pay a parking charge can exist and indeed, that the car was merely stopped for a delivery.

    I would go as far as to say that this is on balance, a case you can win in court, and if you include a counter-claim for data misuse = 'no reasonable cause to get the data under the DPA principles'. So stop worrying, enjoy the ride and we will help you with a defence later on.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • thankyou for the advice,only problem I have is I don't know the tenant that I was delivering to, it was a private parcel I offered to drop off for someone as I happened to be in the area that particular morning hence I have no proof, where does this leave me?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 153,255 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Same as above, just without a lease to show. Same as most people who defend these and win, it's not a walk in the park but is worth defending. Read BW Legal threads to be ready for the demands and how to respond.

    DO NOT PAY, PEOPLE WHO COME HERE AND THEN (RARELY) BAIL OUT & PAY ARE SUPPORTING THE SCAM, FUNDING THE NEXT PCNS!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • so wait for the NTK to arrive before appealing rather than appealing on the 26th day after the ticket was issued?
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