Permitted Work ..DWP decision maker advice?

PHILANTHROPIST

Thanks Tom and Neil.

You clearly have more knowledge than I. Maybe, I have just been unfortunate enough to witness examples of poor practice by outsourced contractors acting for the DWP.

Can we return to Passatriders legitimate query which included "contemplating" Permitted Work "PW" and the OP's fear of notifying DWP of a "desire" to do some PW earlier than may be necessary .... a premature disclosure that in my opinion and based on my own experiences can, whether rightfully or wrongfully, raise a red flag.

As requested I will see if the source and authenticity of the "trivial disregard" for work, inc any resulting or relevant case law, can be identified. If so, and assuming that any forum members are still awake, or even remotely interested, let's take things from there.

robt1066

Lotta detail in this thread, but some intresting arguments.

Have tried to help a few friends who've been unrightly sanctioned , or picked on by DWp, and there is no apology offered ever.

I have to agree with some of the above ipput cos the DWP seem to think that they should be notified of any damned thing ... but they then seem to use any info they have from claimants and look to then use it against them.

PHILANTHROPIST

The case law and legislation which refers to trivial or negligible work not affecting benefit entitlement (aka de minimis work) appears to date back more than 10 years and goes back to the days of Incapacity Benefit .... and prior to the intoduction of the rules pertaining to Permitted Work. That said, there appear to be no recent cases that overturn the de minimis principle and I doubt there ever will be. This is because the term "de minimis" is enshrined in law.

The case law is hardly bedtime reading. The cases can be accessed on google searches, but can be summarised below :

" Negligible work

Case reference - CIB/5298/1997 gives guidance for tribunal on the consideration of whether work is negligible in relation to reg 16 Incapacity for Work General regulations. See also CIB/3507/2002. "

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/incapacity-benefit/ib-decisions/539-cib35072002

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/how-we-can-help/benefits-information/law-pages/case-law-summaries/incapacity-benefit-case-law#Permitted

How much work is "de minimis" ? The case summary for CIB/3507/2002 indicates a period of say 2-3 hours per week.

Should the DWP be notified of de minimis paid work or voluntary work ?

Tom indicated the following :

" ..... ( Claimant must ) notify the DWP of any changes in their circumstances that could affect their benefit entitlement.

..... I am not sure where it mentions trivial work on that link, but either way who is to decide what is classed as trivial? Well that would be a decison maker and not the customer. "

Based on what appears to be current case law, negligible work (paid or voluntary) does not affect benefit entitlement. That is a decision made by a tribunal judge, who of course has more authority than a DWP decision maker.

Claimants may of course elect to notify the DWP of any conceivable change in circumstance. But in respect of negligible work there must surely remain a valid concern that in the modern climate a claimant may then be considered by some parties to be miraculously cured of any pre-existing conditions.

passatrider

Thank you for all the responses so far. I do however, seem to non the wiser to be honest. If you inform the DWP of your good intentions then it 'can' be seen as a change of circumstances which may or may not affect your claim.

It just leaves me frustrated more than anything as I don't want to be parked on benefits for the rest of my working life. It does seem on the face of it better for me to stay where Iam which is neither good for me mentally nor beneficial to the tax payer.

robt1066

passatrider wrote: »

Thank you for all the responses so far. I do however, seem to non the wiser to be honest. If you inform the DWP of your good intentions then it 'can' be seen as a change of circumstances which may or may not affect your claim.

It just leaves me frustrated more than anything as I don't want to be parked on benefits for the rest of my working life. It does seem on the face of it better for me to stay where Iam which is neither good for me mentally nor beneficial to the tax payer.

Well said, but what a sad state of affairs.

NeilCr

passatrider wrote: »

I'm currently on ESA support group along with PIP higher rate. Both these are paid for help with an anxiety disorder/personality disorder.
I'm thinking about doing some permitted work, or at least contemplating it with extreme caution. I'm aware of the rules/earnings etc. The problem is I'm afraid to try anything as I fear the DWP will see it as a red flag and stop my benefits or even send me for an assessment again.

Is there a DWP representative who can advise me if this is likely or not to trigger a rethink of my situation? Maybe you have done permitted work and later been penalised for trying it by having your benefits removed or a medical assessment initiated?

Any help would be appreciated :T

passatrider wrote: »

Thank you for all the responses so far. I do however, seem to non the wiser to be honest. If you inform the DWP of your good intentions then it 'can' be seen as a change of circumstances which may or may not affect your claim.

It just leaves me frustrated more than anything as I don't want to be parked on benefits for the rest of my working life. It does seem on the face of it better for me to stay where Iam which is neither good for me mentally nor beneficial to the tax payer.

This is quite a good summary without directly answering your question

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/work-people-living-disability-or-health-conditions

I think you know by the responses you have had you are not going to get a yes or no answer.

There are other things to think about then the finances - although I recognise they are important. Working or volunteering may give you some confidence - you may enjoy it etc. This could lead to you getting more employment - more money and less burden on the tax payer. I guess the problem is that the alternative is inertia

As suggested in the link how about going to CAB and discussing this through face to face. They will probably have seen others in your situation and have a feel for what you could - or couldn't -do. Again, I doubt they can be definitive but you might get a steer

Good luck!