Permitted Work ..DWP decision maker advice?

Tommo1980

The reality is if you are doing paid or unpaid work on a regular basis, whilst claiming ESA, you should do so under advisement from DWP.

Quibbling over semantics will not change that fact.

If you want to cover yourself further you should undertake work that a medical professional will support as being therapeutic to your condition.

Tom

PHILANTHROPIST

Hi again Tom - in my experience the semantics and the facts in this regard may be important.

That said, with regard to justa?'s query we are only exploring a hypotethetical scenario, so let's agree to disagree. The debate, however, is what can make this forum so interesting.

1234mas430

Unfortunately my wife has a history of Mental health issues dating from 1987. In 1977 her mother took her own life in a house fire when she was 7, her father re married. She was Indecently assaulted when she was a child aged 11 & raped, it was a church man who was a friend of the step mother, they did not believe her at first & her step mother was very hostile towards her. It came about that he was found to be guilty of three other little girls as well, he went to prison in Bristol & he hung himself, consequently her father & step mother divorced .She was on Incapacity & then went for permitted work on the advice from the psychiatrist, keep busy to occupy the mind etc etc. After a 10 month period she was offered a job there, they liked her attitude & how she puts 100% into it .
That was 2005, she is still there & loves it, she was getting DLA low , awarded for life. She does charity work (Running) was taken up when she had her last relapse in 2014, the doctor & psychiatrist suggested it & organised a group for people with similar issues. She took all this up & IMO is doing very well, when her pip transfer came up they took her off as she was able to work & runs in Charity runs for abused children etc ...as is her line of work.
I would seriously consider applying for permitted work, unless as is the case with my wife it does benefit you mentally, it will be used against you at a later date, no matter what your intentions .
Good luck

PHILANTHROPIST

1234mas430 wrote: »

Unfortunately my wife has a history of Mental health issues dating from 1987. In 1977 her mother took her own life in a house fire when she was 7, her father re married. She was Indecently assaulted when she was a child aged 11 & raped, it was a church man who was a friend of the step mother, they did not believe her at first & her step mother was very hostile towards her. It came about that he was found to be guilty of three other little girls as well, he went to prison in Bristol & he hung himself, consequently her father & step mother divorced .She was on Incapacity & then went for permitted work on the advice from the psychiatrist, keep busy to occupy the mind etc etc. After a 10 month period she was offered a job there, they liked her attitude & how she puts 100% into it .
That was 2005, she is still there & loves it, she was getting DLA low , awarded for life. She does charity work (Running) was taken up when she had her last relapse in 2014, the doctor & psychiatrist suggested it & organised a group for people with similar issues. She cannot be alone & has serious trust issues that manifests as severe paranoia & self harm plus not taking medication. She took all this up & IMO is doing very well, when her pip transfer came up they took her off as she was able to work & runs in Charity runs for abused children etc ...as is her line of work.
I would seriously consider applying for permitted work, unless as is the case with my wife it does benefit you mentally, it will be used against you at a later date, no matter what your intentions .
Good luck

Thanks for the above and good to hear of a positive outcome from becoming involved in permitted work. Excellent. Note, however, that despite being impaired the DWP refused ongoing DLA/PIP as partner was well enough to work.

Some caveats - the attitude of DWP to "trapping" claimants has altered dramatically over the past 10 years. In the present day I would still look to dip one's toes in the water first via some "trivial" work to determine whether permitted work is suitable, BEFORE, notifying the DWP.

TELLIT01

Any work, paid or voluntary, needs to be advised to DWP. There is a different form to complete for voluntary work because there is a difference between volunteering for a registered charity and working unpaid for other organisations.
There is a greater likelihood of problems by being found to be working when DWP hasn't been informed, than there is of DWP requesting medical assessment over Permitted / Voluntary work.

PHILANTHROPIST

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Any work, paid or voluntary, needs to be advised to DWP. There is a different form to complete for voluntary work because there is a difference between volunteering for a registered charity and working unpaid for other organisations.
There is a greater likelihood of problems by being found to be working when DWP hasn't been informed, than there is of DWP requesting medical assessment over Permitted / Voluntary work.

Again, let's agree to disagree re the right time to contact the DWP. Work of a trivial nature does NOT need to notified.

TELLIT01

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Again, let's agree to disagree re the right time to contact the DWP. Work of a trivial nature does NOT need to notified.

If you can show me where it states that in DWP guidance documents I will gladly defer to your greater knowledge. I'm passing on what we were told by our local DMs.

PHILANTHROPIST

TELLIT01 wrote: »

If you can show me where it states that in DWP guidance documents I will gladly defer to your greater knowledge. I'm passing on what we were told by our local DMs.

Thanks for assuming that I appear to have greater knowledge. I wish lol. I think Alice Holt deserves such praise ; not I.

You raise a good point, however, in respect of identifying the (or any) relevant guidance. As far as I am aware the trivial/ nominal disregard argument has been used for years and I for one had accepted it as the norm. I did help a claimant in circa 2013 who was called in for a compliance interview, and the alleged (voluntary) work was deemed to be is so minimal that it was regarded as being trivial or negligible, and as such a failure to notify was accepted. But, I never did ask from where such "guidance" came, in part because the compliance officer appeared to be more nervous (and confused) than the claimant; he even apologised !

I will seek to identify the source, and if I am mistaken (or otherwise) we may all be wiser.

NeilCr

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Any work, paid or voluntary, needs to be advised to DWP. There is a different form to complete for voluntary work because there is a difference between volunteering for a registered charity and working unpaid for other organisations.
There is a greater likelihood of problems by being found to be working when DWP hasn't been informed, than there is of DWP requesting medical assessment over Permitted / Voluntary work.

I'd agree. I'd always advise someone to tell the DWP - paid or voluntary.

If nothing else (and there are other reasons) in case someone down the road decides to tell DWP that Mr/MsX is working while they are claiming benefits etc etc!

tomtom256

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Tom - I can relate to your moral high ground approach and would not wish to disagree with a belt and braces approach. However, it is also "non-compliant" to drive at 35MPH in a 30MPH area ... but would I recommend someone to notify the police of such an event !?

So long as any "work" or volunteering is in the short term trivial then I feel a claimant would simply wave a red flag by notifying the DWP. The link below makes reference to the same and contains the following under item 3) as work (as distinct to "permitted work") which is allowed :

.....work which is so minimal that it can be regarded as trivial or negligible.

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/work-people-living-disability-or-health-conditions

As a fraud investigator employed by the DWP it is not a "belt & braces" attitude but actually what the customer on benefits agree's to do.

i.e. to notify the DWP of any changes in their circumstances that could affect their benefit entitlement.

Starting work paid or unpaid is one of them. https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/eligibility then see claiming ESA if you work, it's in black and white for you.

I am not sure where it mentions trivial work on that link, but either way who is to decide what is classed as trivial? Well that would be a decison maker and not the customer.

Otherwise why would you need to tell the DWP or need permission to work in the first place!

If you want people getting sanction, called in for unecessary interviews under caution, compliance interviews, benefit being suspended whilst its investigated, then please do continue to tell people not to notify the DWP. But I do hope you will be there to support them when any of the above happens.