First death had to deal with. Letter of wishes??

Mojisola

misterbarlow wrote: »

My poor mother is terminally ill with cancer, and is in the last few weeks now.

She has no main assets to speak of, no car, her house is council, just a small insurance policy of about £6k to cover her pre planned funeral costs of £4300 that she said she has part paid, an over 50 plan for about £800, her personal possessions, and a few hundred in her bank account.

She has no will, we have found a letter in her room leaving various personal items to various family members, it is signed but not witnessed, and we are wondering do we need to get her to sign anything else for example to grant us permission to act on her behalf for her affairs and accounts etc or name an executor for after she has gone??

With such a small estate, you may not need probate so it will be very simple to organise. The insurance company may require the estate to go to probate but it's worth asking before starting the process.

After the death you will have the death certificate naming (I assume) either you or your sister as the person notifying the death. With that and the necessary paperwork, the funeral directors will take instruction about the funeral.

As you know from the letter what her wishes are about personal items, you could give those away now.

There's basic information here -
https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/overview
and more in the Stickies at the top of the page.

Keep_pedalling

misterbarlow wrote: »

My sister lived with her, so they obviously been privately putting plans in place over the past few months during her illness for when the time comes...

She has given my sister her debit card and pin and told her to withdraw everything from her account to keep in the house, as she doesn't want us waiting months for it, which she has started doing this week..

Is there going to be any likely comeback from her doing that?
My mother told me about it herself yesterday, so its nothing my sister has taken upon herself to do etc, its all above board.

Although unlikely to have any comeback while your mother is alive, there is no way she should touch the account after your mother's death. It is also not wise keeping large sums of cash in the house either.

Sorting you mum's bank account after her passing is actually very easy providing you have a will, so that should be the way to proceed if possible.

Magnolia

Mojisola wrote: »

As you know from the letter what her wishes are about personal items, you could give those away now.

My thoughts as well Mojisola. May also be possible that some of the beneficiaries could provide a thank you card with a short personal message inside.

Could provide some comfort to the dear lady.

getmore4less

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

Provided she has the mental capacity, and can convey to the witnesses that she is doing this of her own free will then yes.

it is not the job of witnesses to a signature to judge the mental state of a signer.

getmore4less

depending on the wording in the letter they may have already been gifted while alive.

Gifting does not require the items to be handed over.

Tuesday_Tenor

OP, can you confirm that the immediate family is just mother and 2 children (yourself and sister?). There is no living spouse; there are no children who have already died before mother?

Do the letter of wishes and the unwitnessed will instruct that certain possessions go to certain people and the rest is to be split between you and sister?

Neither the letter of wishes nor the unwitnessed will have any legal validity; the situation will be that your mother will die 'intestate' ( that is, without a valid will). However this will not prevent you and your sister honouring your mothers wishes if you so choose.

IF the process of probate is required ( unlikely, but possibly for the insurance) then you, sister or both of you will apply for 'Letters of Administration' which will make you 'administrators' of the estate, which is basically the same role as 'executor'. The difference is that an executor would distribute the estate according the instructions in the will, whereas the Administrator has to distribute the estate according to the rules of intestacy. These rules mean that the estate will be split between you and your sister equally (given the assumptions made about no spouse etc.). You and sister are the only people who would be 'disadvantaged' by following Mum's wishes, so if you want to honour her wishes, there is nothing to stop you. Technically, there is something called a 'deed of variation' to allow beneficiaries to give up or reduce an inheritance in favour of someone else. For the presumed small value of the specific items involved, if you and sister are in agreement, then you don't need the DofV - no one else is affected, no one else will know or care. ETA: or another way of looking at it is, you and sister inherit the 'specific items', they're now yours, but then give them away, as per Mums wishes.

It's quite likely that the whole process of probate/Lettersof Administration won't be needed. Banks will release funds up to certain limits (£5k to £20k depending on bank) without probate. Instead you will supply the death certificate, proof of your own ID, and will sign an indemnity form for the bank, stating that you are the correct person/people to receive the funds. All this will happen AFTER Mum's death. What you are doing with the funds before her death is between you and her, but if she is losing mental capacity through pain-reliving drugs, you shouldn't really be removing any more funds; that could leave you open to allegations of dishonesty. (Except that at this moment, in these circumstances, there s only you and sister to object ...)

You are going through such a difficult time (I know, lost both parents in last 10 years). If you have any more queries, just ask.

Yorkshireman99

misterbarlow wrote: »

My poor mother is terminally ill with cancer, and is in the last few weeks now.
This is the first death myself or my sisters have ever had to deal with..
We don't know how it all works!!

She has no main assets to speak of, no car, her house is council, just a small insurance policy of about £6k to cover her pre planned funeral costs of £4300 that she said she has part paid, an over 50 plan for about £800, her personal possessions, and a few hundred in her bank account.

She has no will, we have found a letter in her room leaving various personal items to various family members, it is signed but not witnessed, and we are wondering do we need to get her to sign anything else for example to grant us permission to act on her behalf for her affairs and accounts etc or name an executor for after she has gone??


My sister rang her funeral provider to ask what the outstanding balance was, and they refused to even discuss it with her...

Make it easy as you can for the poor woman. The will is invalid so just forget that. Once she dies the FD will be be more cooperative. As for withdrawing the funds from the bank that would be bad newsd.

Savvy_Sue

I agree that there's not a lot of point doing anything in this situation, but in case anyone else is reading this from a similar position, then it is possible that the hospital / hospice / nursing home will be able to facilitate getting a solicitor in to draw up a new valid will, especially if most of the work has been done already. Worth talking to MacMillan about that kind of thing.

SevenOfNine

misterbarlow - I would imagine you have more important issues to manage right now than concerns about a new Will, the validity of the one you have or the Letter of Wishes.

You will not be able to get back any of the moments of the next few weeks, so ensure you have no regrets about time wasted & spend them with your mother.

We experienced virtually NO problems with any organisation early 2016 without a Will wrapping up a bigger estate than you've described for your mother. Do you really want to spend time, money & energy on worrying about this now?

The death certificate proved MORE than sufficient to deal with energy suppliers, Water company, BT, mortgage company, council (to cancel the 'rates' on the property), DVLA, death in service cover AND the bank (Santander & had £18,500 in the a/c).

When the time comes make sure you obtain several copies of the death certificate, you may need to send several off at the same time, it's cheaper to buy them when you register the passing of your mother than to purchase more later. Photocopies will not suffice.

Every single organisation dealt with us extremely well, & paid out on production of the certificate (& our ID) - though if I recall correctly Santander required a signature on some sort of disclaimer.

None of those listed above required us to apply for Letters of Administration (called Probate when there is a Will), though we were obliged to because it was required to sell the property. All the rest was dealt with LONG before L of A was granted.

The funeral company will deal with someone when your mother has passed, after all, she has a funeral plan & you have a funeral to arrange. Do you not have access to paperwork for this plan in your mother's home?

It's been said, a Letter of Wishes is not legally binding regardless of whether its witnessed (or even signed), therefore it doesn't matter. Though helpful to be signed by mum to confirm authenticity should other NoK question distribution of mum's knick knacks. It would be wise if you & siblings went to the property together to collect the items mum wants you each to have specifically, & agree amongst yourselves what to do with the rest of mum's possessions. I don't believe councils wait long before wanting possession of a council property, though they may give you an extra week or two if you cough up rent!

Assume only immediate NoK is you & siblings - no husband? Intestate doesn't sound like it's going to be onerous, or less onerous than trying to organise a last ditch legally binding Will that you have indicated your mother wouldn't even be able to sign.

https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/if-the-person-didnt-leave-a-will

misterbarlow

Thanks for everyone's replies...
Just to update, we noticed on the weekend that the diy will actually says
"signed by_____ on_____ " which my mother has signed, and underneath it says
"signed in the presence of "
Name_____ x2
address_____ x2
but no boxes or lines for a date for witnesses, its assuming they were there the same date as the writer of the will...
so, right or not, legal or not, two of her good friends have read it, signed it, and are willing to say they were present when she originally signed it... problem solved as far as we concerned...

Yes just myself and two sisters, my mother is divorced, no other children.