Question about lease conditions

NeilCr

Rosemary7391 wrote: »

I can understand the BBQ thing and the eating/drinking outside, as these are almost certain to impact on other flats even if done sensibly. I really don't get the washing thing though. I guess it isn't all that nice to look at someone else's washing, but it's a fact of life - we wear clothes, they need washing, they then need drying...? I wouldn't buy a flat without any space outside to use for this purpose.

I'm sure on our estate the covenant on washing lines was mainly to do with selling the properties.

HB58

The flat we are hoping to buy has such a clause about washing. The small communal area is right outside 'our' lounge window, it will be a nuisance for us not to be able to hang stuff out but it also means we won't have everyone else's washing outside our window.

D_M_E

1) Not to place or use any barbecue on the Communal Areas or gardens or balconies (if any) forming part of the Demised Premises nor to carry out cooking operations, eating and/or drinking of any sort on the development except inside the Demised Premises.

I read this as saying she can cook, eat and drink in the garden, since the garden is part of the demised Premises.

Therefore, since a Barbie is usually used for cooking, the second part of this clause gives permission to use one despite the fact that the first part prevents the use and placement of one.

Badly worded, I think.

davidmcn

D_M_E wrote: »

I read this as saying she can cook, eat and drink in the garden, since the garden is part of the demised Premises.

Ah yes, possibly (unless "inside" implies "indoors" - as you say, not the greatest wording).

PasturesNew

But you can play football with your mates, keep 12 dogs and have a fag.


One neighbour denied their glass of Moet with organic Wagu burger ... while next door's hosting a Burping Contest while watching the footy on the wide telly they dragged into the garden and kicking a ball about waiting for the game to start.

stardust09

D_M_E wrote: »

I read this as saying she can cook, eat and drink in the garden, since the garden is part of the demised Premises.

Therefore, since a Barbie is usually used for cooking, the second part of this clause gives permission to use one despite the fact that the first part prevents the use and placement of one.

Badly worded, I think.

I was wondering that - not about the BBQ but about the garden being part of the Demised Premises and therefore eating inside that space (rather than meaning inside the flat) being permitted. I'm sure everyone else is having glasses of wine on their balconies from time to time - and that's with a street view rather than in a private enclosed garden.

Thanks for echoing my thoughts. Hopefully the solicitor can clear it up. It just seems odd.

NeilCr

Rosemary7391 wrote: »

I can understand the BBQ thing and the eating/drinking outside, as these are almost certain to impact on other flats even if done sensibly. I really don't get the washing thing though. I guess it isn't all that nice to look at someone else's washing, but it's a fact of life - we wear clothes, they need washing, they then need drying...? I wouldn't buy a flat without any space outside to use for this purpose.

To add to my earlier post. Our estates is a mixture of flats and houses. The flats have no outside space. The houses have very small courtyard gardens and there is a covenant on washing lines in them. In general, we, as directors, have no problems with small washing lines and a few of the householders use them

But we did have one resident who got apoplectic if she saw a washing line up. She'd always be knocking on my door demanding that I get them taken down. It was quite a difficult situation as no-one else was bothered (there are 69 properties here) but the covenant said no washing lines. In the end she moved away so the issue died

Funnily enough she wasn't so bothered about one of our parking covenants which she was more than happy to break!

From a director's point of view they are an absolute pain in the butt!

stardust09

NeilCr wrote: »

To add to my earlier post. Our estates is a mixture of flats and houses. The flats have no outside space. The houses have very small courtyard gardens and there is a covenant on washing lines in them. In general, we, as directors, have no problems with small washing lines and a few of the householders use them

But we did have one resident who got apoplectic if she saw a washing line up. She'd always be knocking on my door demanding that I get them taken down. It was quite a difficult situation as no-one else was bothered (there are 69 properties here) but the covenant said no washing lines. In the end she moved away so the issue died

Funnily enough she wasn't so bothered about one of our parking covenants which she was more than happy to break!

From a director's point of view they are an absolute pain in the butt!

Thanks, Neil, you've been really helpful. Is it usual for Directors to be living on the development? Or when you say 'knocking on my door' are you being metaphorical?!

It sounds like as long as my sister's upstairs neighbours aren't bothered about any washing line then there might not be any issues anyway? They are the only ones who might know it's there. Is there any way that written permission can be used to override this condition of the lease at the time or purchase or is it set in stone.

Also, does the Lessor every really enter a property to inspect it as a routine matter (as specified in the lease) or do they usually leave the tenant to live there uninterupted unless there is a cause for concern?

Leasehold is a minefield!

AdrianC

stardust09 wrote: »

Is it usual for Directors to be living on the development?

Where the freehold is owned by a company which is jointly owned by the leaseholders/residents, absolutely.

davidmcn

stardust09 wrote: »

Is there any way that written permission can be used to override this condition of the lease at the time or purchase or is it set in stone.

In theory yes, but in practice the lease conditions aren't going to be individually negotiated for each flat or varied unless something significant comes up.

Also, does the Lessor every really enter a property to inspect it as a routine matter (as specified in the lease) or do they usually leave the tenant to live there uninterupted unless there is a cause for concern?

Unlikely, though obviously there may be maintenance issues for neighbours or common property which may require access to the flat.

Leasehold is a minefield!

Many freehold properties are subject to similar covenants, this isn't all that much to do with the tenure.