Can I have an open fire?

Sashaxxx1979

We recently had our chimney breasts opened up to enable us to have open fires. When we tried to test it, it filled our neighbours house with smoke :-(

We are looking for a way around this... our builder says we may have to have wood burning stoves instead with a new flue up the chimney, but I would much prefer an open fire.

Is there a way to make this work?

Thanks!

Greenfires

An open fire is a pretty backwards step to be honest. The chimney will pull warm air from the house 24 hours a day (whether the fire is lit or not) - which has to be replaced from somewhere - and somewhere is outside! When the fire is lit, the vast majority of the heat produced goes straight up the chimney too, with even more draught. So while you may feel warm sitting in front of it, the overall effect on the house can sometimes be a cooling one as so much cold air is drawn in.

You can have the chimney relined with concrete - basically a big rubber sausage is lowered down the chimney and inflated, and then concrete poured around the outside of it. Couple of grand at least probably.

The "sensible" option if there is one is a decent stove and a flexible liner. A modern stove is streets ahead of an open fire in terms of efficiency - a lot more heat for a lot less fuel. But you still have to factor in things like the availability and cost of fuel to feed it, as well as storage space for it.

A._Badger

If you add together the cost of a liner, its installation and then the purchase and fitting of a stove, you would have to waste an enormous amount of fuel to pay for it!

And even then, however nice stoves are, they do have aesthetic disadvantages compared with an open fire which is, after all, what the OP says s/he wants.

My advice would be to get an expert opinion from a builder who is qualified to investigate what the problem is and proceed from there. You may need to have the chimney relined but you won't know for sure until you have had it examined by someone who specialises in that sort of work - and that doesn't mean someone who is trying to sell you steel liner, which is what most stove sellers will do.

Cardew

The OP has specifically stated that they 'would much prefer an open fire' and further asks 'is there any way to make it work'

In a gas fully central heated house, I have an open fire burning logs in one reception room. As implied in the post above I have this fire for aesthetic reasons, and accept on the occasions it is lit, it is not the most economical practice.

Greenfires

Ok fair enough - point taken. I must have had my "money saving" head on when I posted here!

But yes - there are several ways the op can make this work if it has to be an open fire.

A._Badger

Greenfires wrote: »

Ok fair enough - point taken. I must have had my "money saving" head on when I posted here!

But yes - there are several ways the op can make this work if it has to be an open fire.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you Greenfires, but I do think this subject requires some exploration, as it seems to crop up again and again.

Even if the sort of figures claimed for the efficiency advantages of a stove over an open fire were accurate (and I have my doubts) the cost of stoves is now so high that when coupled with the prices being charged for installations, you would be very unlikely to see any overall cost advantage inside a decade - possibly longer.

Then we have to bear in mind that we are now being told not to expect stainless steel liners to survive for the sort of periods we were once told could be expected. That means we have to factor in the replacement cost, which will be a significant sum in most instances.

So is it really a money saving option to spend thousands just to save a little on fuel?

In many cases, I'm honestly not sure that it is, particularly if the fire is not planned to be your only, or primary, source of heating.

FreeBear

A._Badger wrote: »

Even if the sort of figures claimed for the efficiency advantages of a stove over an open fire were accurate (and I have my doubts) the cost of stoves is now so high that when coupled with the prices being charged for installations, you would be very unlikely to see any overall cost advantage inside a decade - possibly longer.

Don't forget the cost of fuel - If you have to buy in wood, it can get quite expensive for enough to burn over the winter months. Even if you go out collecting blown-downs, there is the cost of cutting, transporting, and storing to consider. Chopping up "free" wood such as pallets still involves collecting & transportation, and the stuff burns pretty quick.

The cost of a wood burner and the attendant installation costs makes for an expensive exercise. The return on investment, if there is one at all, will take a very long time, but... Having installed one myself, it certainly heats the room much better than an open fire, doesn't spit hot embers across the room, and looks so much better than the old open fire. I also have the space for a substantial wood pile and the time to cut & chop the stuff.

For the OP - If your chimney has failed the smoke test (filling next door with fumes), you won't get a respectable installer willing to fit a stove even with a s/s liner. Your chimney needs to be inspected to see where it has failed and then repaired. Without repairs, there is a very real risk of carbon monoxide leaking in to your neighbour's house - CO is a killer.

A._Badger

Which looks better is a personal judgement. I've had several stoves and several open fires over the years. On balance, I think I prefer the open fires as an experience. Not everyone agrees, obviously.

You point about fuel cost is true and this board has seen any number of people appear who seem to have fallen for the myth that wood is free (well, it grows on trees, doesn't it?) and that once they've had a stove installed heating will cost them pennies.

There is no such thing as cheap energy in this country.

Greenfires

I see where you're coming from Badger - and I think if a house has gas central heating already, then with money saving in mind, it would be difficult to make an argument for opening up any chimneys or fitting a woodstove - other than one based on aesthetics.

We're lucky in that my workplace is bordered by woodlands, and I get to do the management work in return for the wood that comes out of it - which will keep us going for a good few years. But if I was paying market prices then I reckon the stove would see a lot less use and the gas would be firing up more often.

I'm not sure about installers not fitting liners to a failed chimney to be honest. One of the commonest faults is failure of the mid feathers, and I've never heard of these being rebuilt - which would obviously be a fairly major structural operation. It seems it's usually the case that a failed chimney is "treated" by fitting a liner - though what HETAS or building control actually have to say on the matter I've no idea.