County Court Claim - Clamping in Operation Sign at the Car Park

adamtbray

Yes, I submitted the original defence back in Jan. The hearing date is in a couple of weeks, so I'm just working on the full defence to take to the hearing now. I thought the original defence would have put CPMS off from pursuing this any further, but it seems they are going to take it all the way to court.

adamtbray

6. "I had no recollection I never received etc.

Good point, I'll get the defence updated now.

Coupon-mad

adamtbray wrote: »

Yes, I submitted the original defence back in Jan. The hearing date is in a couple of weeks, so I'm just working on the full defence to take to the hearing now. I thought the original defence would have put CPMS off from pursuing this any further, but it seems they are going to take it all the way to court.

Nope, your next stage is Witness Statement and evidence, not 'full defence' but you can also do an optional skeleton argument.

Read bargepole's post about what happens when, in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

adamtbray

OK, thanks. I'll take a look and get those uploaded soon.

I've requested that the claimant is put to strict proof on several issues, such as a valid letter before county claim, and compliance with the PoFA. Would these need to be provided before the claim goes to court (as if they can't chase after me as the keeper they would have no right to be able to take me to court, surely?)

Umkomaas

adamtbray wrote: »

OK, thanks. I'll take a look and get those uploaded soon.

I've requested that the claimant is put to strict proof on several issues, such as a valid letter before county claim, and compliance with the PoFA. Would these need to be provided before the claim goes to court (as if they can't chase after me as the keeper they would have no right to be able to take me to court, surely?)

Many judges seem laissez-faire about the intricacies of the issue of a LBCCC, so I wouldn't waste too many waking hours on that.

In respect of PoFA compliance, you are going to have to be fully knowledgeable about the Act to walk your judge through why keeper liability does not apply. The likelihood is that the judge will have little knowledge at all about PoFA. He/she might have heard of Beavis and think that all private parking cases are the same. So you need to be on your toes to argue this stuff in your favour.

As a minimum in terms of PoFA, you need to take copies of Schedule 4 of the Act (x3 copies) for the judge to read.

Half_way

You mentioned the landowner aspect, if you have not yet submitted your defence you can get the landowner involved, however why was your vehicle issued with a ticket in the first place?
If the landowner doesn't support this matter being pursued through the courts then the parking company does not have the authority to pursue it

adamtbray

In respect of PoFA compliance, you are going to have to be fully knowledgeable about the Act to walk your judge through why keeper liability does not apply

What happens if the judge asks me directly if I was the driver and I have to admit to the judge that I was driving the vehicle? Could I lose the case on these grounds? i.e. would keeper liability not be an issue as then I would have admitted I was the driver and not just the keeper?

That is why I was wondering whether the documents to prove PoFA compliance by the claimant should be provided by the claimant before the hearing.

Coupon-mad

What happens if the judge asks me directly if I was the driver.

Happens rarely and you can say you are under no obligation to name the driver (and refer to Henry Greenslade's words from the POPLA Annual Report).

Look at the link below and read it - 'matildas' on pepipoo explains what actually happened in court in her case which was the complete opposite (but it depends on your local court/Judge - Wigan and Liverpool have proved among the worst recently whereas Skipton and Manchester seem to 'get it' about this scam):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112475

That is why I was wondering whether the documents to prove PoFA compliance by the claimant should be provided by the claimant before the hearing.

They will have to show their evidence to you, as you will them, upon exchange of Witness Statements (WS). Do read bargepole's post about what happens when, in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread and examples of WS there.

Fruitcake

You should redact the PCN number "from the future."

You should complain to the DVLA about this one. The scammers have breached their KADOE contract with the DVLA because they cannot possibly have obtained keeper details let alone had reasonable cause to obtain keeper details to issue a PCN.

It won't help your case (unless you get a very quick response) but it might cause problems for the scammers.

adamtbray

Thanks both.

You should redact the PCN number "from the future."

How would it be a breach of the KADOE contract? Surely it would only matter in this regard as to when a NTK was issued after the date at which the ticket was issued? The 2018 date refers to a valid ticket issued in 2016. I did check with the DVLA that four separate requests for information were made for the four tickets. Would an incorrect date on the County Court Claim Form be enough to cause a breach of the KADOE contract?