Negative changes to the Motability scheme as of 1st January 2017.

rockingbilly

easy wrote: »

Yes but ... whilst the deposit may be similar to an advance payment, your monthly payments equal to your DLA payment don't include your insurance, servicing and tyres do they (and I'm guessing they are all relatively pricey on a model like yours) ??


but you will need to continue paying the finance tho'. I'm guessing you have the means to do that. Oh and if you have a motability car and lose your DLA/PIP you can ask motability to sell you the car, if you can set-up your own finance.

The actual running costs are not what you would imagine.
Servicing, tyres etc are on par with a Ford. Insurance is £300 pa, Road tax is cheaper than an Astra.
So yes there are these to factor in, but when you compare it with say a Ford Focus there is one hell of a difference in the feel and comfort of the car. The finance finishes in June so if I lose the DLA in the transition that I am going through at the moment it's only another five more payments to go.
So for an investment (my original deposit) 0f £15000, I still have a car that is worth in excess of £12000.

rockingbilly

easy wrote: »

However, just to highlight one of the OP's main points again ..
The change was made without any warning or pre-information, and as far as I'm aware, without any consultation at all with the service users. Surely we should have been given the opportunity to put our views about this ?

Read back through the first post. El-Jackal had spent time doing research and going for test drives etc, then having made a decision was unable to follow that through, so it has wasted their time and energy, and that of the dealers.

As I said last week, if ordinary car buyers had suddenly been told they weren't allowed to have specific cars which they had already chosen, because someone they didn't know thought they shouldn't, there would be an outcry.
But because we are disabled we just have this imposed upon us with no warning, and are expected not to complain.

As I said before, the motability scheme has been excellent for me, and still continues to offer a good service. But cutting it back without prior announcement was a poor choice of action by whoever made that decision.

Comparing Motability with a car buyer is silly. Motability issue their quarterly offers out of which you can select one. When you go into a garage with cash in your hand you can get anything you want from a Fiesta to a Rolls.
Everybody knows that the new list comes out every 3 months and that cars are taken off and cars are added. If you had tried the car you wanted in December say, and knowing what could/may happen in January with the new list - you should have ordered it when it was available in December. Everybody knows that Motability are tight lipped just before the new list comes out otherwise if they were to say that a particular model will disappear in the new list - there would be a flood of people ordering it right up until the 31st December.

Besides which how many people can afford to buy a £30,000 car - they can't so why should that car be available through Motability.

In reality what should happen is that Motability should be looking at what the majority of people are buying for their own private vehicle and only include those vehicles in the list.
If Motability listed every car available, I would be straight back on the scheme, my first choice would be an Aston Martin, pay a few thousand up front, give up my £50+ a week HRM for the next 156 weeks and then buy it from Motability after they had taken the depreciation hit.

rockingbilly

Gooseberry1 wrote: »

The problem is that we dont have a choice with regard to the Motability Scheme. If we receive the allowance, Motability Operations (which is a profit making company - they made more than £125m last year) is the only company who have the right to receive the PIP or DLA allowance direct from the government and the only company who are able to access the VAT advantages that make them c44% cheaper than a normal lease. Effectively they are a monopoly who make the decision over what we can choose. Im not sure who makes the decision but someone at Motability - presumably Mike Betts their CEO who earned more than £900k last year - has decided unilaterally that we shouldn't be able to choose higher price cars anymore even though the allowance is non means tested. Its probably time that some competition was introduced with other leasing companies able to enjoy the direct payment and VAT advantages that Motability Operations enjoy. This could potentially increase choice and reduce prices for all disabled people

Wasn't there a public outcry a year or two back when the people of this country found out that disabled people were getting high value cars (Range Rovers, top of the range BMW's and the like) from Motability? Wasn't it the case that to appease the general population that Motability stopped this happening?

Surely you don't want to go back to those days and expose the disabled to another rebellion?
Seriously if the general population are happy with their Ford Focus, Vauxhall Astra don't you think that the same types of vehicles should only be available through Motability?

[Deleted User]

easy wrote: »

...As I said before, the motability scheme has been excellent for me, and still continues to offer a good service. But cutting it back without prior announcement was a poor choice of action by whoever made that decision.

You have summed up my thoughts exactly.

At the same time as starting this thread I made a formal complaint to Motability on on a number of grounds. My email included the following:

Things that I would like you to do to put things right:
1. Inform Motability customers of all upcoming changes to the Motability scheme.
2. Ensure that the Motability Lifestyle magazine includes details of all such changes.
3. Include details of changes to the scheme on your website (both past and planned changes).
4. Liaise with car manufacturers to allow Motability customers the ability to add or remove required features, even if this requires manufacturers to tweak their standard way of operating.
5. Allow customers to pay an additional fee to manufacturers to “bump up” their car from the maximum trim level allowed by your system to the trim level above (much like you can do for larger wheels or a panoramic sunroof).
6. Allow Motability dealerships to inform potential customers of definite upcoming changes.
7. Use a complaints email address that gives confidence to someone making a complaint; correspondence2@motabilityoperations.co.uk is not good enough. How about complaints@motabilityoperations.co.uk?
8. Set up the complaints email address to have an automatic response system that informs customers that their complaint has got through to you and that the complaint will be swiftly responded to (according to your complaints page this will be within four days).
9. Assist Motability dealerships to have faith in the system by making all the above changes and letting people know.

Since submitting my complaint (and chasing them up two days later after hearing nothing back) I have been contacted by an excellent customer service representative who answered most of my questions. The recent price gap boils down to one thing: recent bad PR. There have been a number of recent newspaper stories about disabled folk being able to get £30k+ sports cars on the scheme and that this is not what the charity was set up to facilitate. In 2011 (or 2012, I'm not sure) they had a similar decision re: £35k+ cars.

One poster has commented on the three monthly reviewing process; yes, Motability review the models available every three months. However, only five years and now have they introduced as large a change as they have just done. It's one thing to tweak a handful of models and quite another to slash huge number of models/trims from the scheme in one go. The new official cap is £28,000 for a manual and £29,500 for an automatic, with a number of wheelchair accessible vehicles being exempted from the caps. There is no official cap regarding bhp for any vehicle on the scheme.

My ideal car on the scheme, which is no longer available, has a list price of £29,990 for an automatic: £490 above the cap so not available. Ok, however, I can order a lower spec model of the same vehicle that has a list price of £28,900 and I can choose extras including a panoramic sunroof (£1100), raised roof floor (£115), upgraded sound system (£1300), 19" wheels (£1200) and so on, all of which would push the value of the car well above £30,000... Why can't I offer to pay an additional amount over £29,500 that would allow me to "bump up" the Motability-acceptable model/trim level to the level I need and hence provide me with the best vehicle for my needs? Motability would still have only funded a vehicle under the cap with me paying a little extra. (Yes, I know that this logic can be extended to why doesn't everyone who wants a Ferrari use the scheme to pay a little extra to do so? A friend got a Range Rover Sport on the scheme due to exceptional medical requirements and to do so I think he paid an Advance Payment of £18,000).

The Motability chap said that the reason they didn't announce it was because they would have had a host of clients call in before the cap change to say that their poor grandparents need moving around and they need to immediately upgrade from a Ford Fiesta to a 7-seater Seat Alhambra. I pointed out that Motability customers' contracts are for three years and only under exceptional circumstances do Motability have to allow clients to make changes early. Someone ditching their current car to immediately loan a larger car above the cap would be a scenario that Motability would be fully justified in refusing to do.

The result of all this is that I'm off. I'm done with the scheme. I am hugely grateful for Motability and for the three cars that I have had on the scheme (2006 Ford Focus, 2009 BMW 120d, 2013 Toyota IQ). However, this recent change has made me realise that three years of War Pensioners Mobility Supplement is £10,000. That's a lot of cash and I don't believe that the value you get from the scheme today is anywhere near as good as it was 10 years ago. The time has come for me to leave the scheme and to buy privately. This unannounced change has directly led me to me making this decision.

[Deleted User]

rockingbilly wrote: »

Seriously if the general population are happy with their Ford Focus, Vauxhall Astra don't you think that the same types of vehicles should only be available through Motability?

But shouldn't it just come down to the maths? If Motability can still after three years make a profit on a car that is more expensive than this new limit then shouldn't such a car be allowed to be on the scheme?

Does anyone know the calculations for the "average" Motability car? I.e. purchase price, insurance cost, servicing cost, tyres/brakes/oil/etc cost, sale price... Does Motability Operations lose money on each car, which Motability the Charity covers or do many cars make the company a profit? Does a more expensive car automatically lose them more money than a cheaper car?

rockingbilly

Deleted_User wrote: »

You have summed up my thoughts exactly.

At the same time as starting this thread I made a formal complaint to Motability on on a number of grounds. My email included the following:



Since submitting my complaint (and chasing them up two days later after hearing nothing back) I have been contacted by an excellent customer service representative who answered most of my questions. The recent price gap boils down to one thing: recent bad PR. There have been a number of recent newspaper stories about disabled folk being able to get £30k+ sports cars on the scheme and that this is not what the charity was set up to facilitate. In 2011 (or 2012, I'm not sure) they had a similar decision re: £35k+ cars.

One poster has commented on the three monthly reviewing process; yes, Motability review the models available every three months. However, only five years and now have they introduced as large a change as they have just done. It's one thing to tweak a handful of models and quite another to slash huge number of models/trims from the scheme in one go. The new official cap is £28,000 for a manual and £29,500 for an automatic, with a number of wheelchair accessible vehicles being exempted from the caps. There is no official cap regarding bhp for any vehicle on the scheme.

My ideal car on the scheme, which is no longer available, has a list price of £29,990 for an automatic: £490 above the cap so not available. Ok, however, I can order a lower spec model of the same vehicle that has a list price of £28,900 and I can choose extras including a panoramic sunroof (£1100), raised roof floor (£115), upgraded sound system (£1300), 19" wheels (£1200) and so on, all of which would push the value of the car well above £30,000... Why can't I offer to pay an additional amount over £29,500 that would allow me to "bump up" the Motability-acceptable model/trim level to the level I need and hence provide me with the best vehicle for my needs? Motability would still have only funded a vehicle under the cap with me paying a little extra. (Yes, I know that this logic can be extended to why doesn't everyone who wants a Ferrari use the scheme to pay a little extra to do so? A friend got a Range Rover Sport on the scheme due to exceptional medical requirements and to do so I think he paid an Advance Payment of £18,000).

The Motability chap said that the reason they didn't announce it was because they would have had a host of clients call in before the cap change to say that their poor grandparents need moving around and they need to immediately upgrade from a Ford Fiesta to a 7-seater Seat Alhambra. I pointed out that Motability customers' contracts are for three years and only under exceptional circumstances do Motability have to allow clients to make changes early. Someone ditching their current car to immediately loan a larger car above the cap would be a scenario that Motability would be fully justified in refusing to do.

The result of all this is that I'm off. I'm done with the scheme. I am hugely grateful for Motability and for the three cars that I have had on the scheme (2006 Ford Focus, 2009 BMW 120d, 2013 Toyota IQ). However, this recent change has made me realise that three years of War Pensioners Mobility Supplement is £10,000. That's a lot of cash and I don't believe that the value you get from the scheme today is anywhere near as good as it was 10 years ago. The time has come for me to leave the scheme and to buy privately. This unannounced change has directly led me to me making this decision.

I don't blame you. I did the same in June 2013 when I found out how PIP was to be awarded as regards reducing the walking distance down from 50 metres to 20.
Motability and the cars that they offer are directly linked to how the non disabled view what they should have. Public opinion is such that a disabled person should not be allowed to have a car that the ordinary working non disabled person can't afford.

FBaby

My ideal car on the scheme

Yeah, I too looked at getting my ideal car, and then without any previous warning, we were told that we wouldn't get any pay increase this year, even though we had year in the last 10, so couldn't afford it any longer. Bummer!

and I can choose extras including a panoramic sunroof (£1100), raised roof floor (£115), upgraded sound system (£1300), 19" wheels (£1200) and so on

Trying hard to understand how an upgraded sound system will help any particular disability, except maybe being of hard hearing, but that wouldn't get you the mobility element anyway.

Savvy_Sue

Deleted_User wrote: »

I can order a lower spec model of the same vehicle that has a list price of £28,900 and I can choose extras including a panoramic sunroof (£1100), raised roof floor (£115), upgraded sound system (£1300), 19" wheels (£1200) and so on, all of which would push the value of the car well above £30,000... Why can't I offer to pay an additional amount over £29,500 that would allow me to "bump up" the Motability-acceptable model/trim level to the level I need and hence provide me with the best vehicle for my needs? Motability would still have only funded a vehicle under the cap with me paying a little extra.

FBaby wrote: »

Trying hard to understand how an upgraded sound system will help any particular disability, except maybe being of hard hearing, but that wouldn't get you the mobility element anyway.

I don't think Deleted_User was saying that they needed or were going to ask for the upgraded sound system, nor that their mobility should pay for it - it would surely be added to the advance payment they'd make.

What they seemed to be saying was that if they could have a lower spec car and pay to add fancy bits to it pushing it above the threshold, then why not be allowed to have the higher spec car which would better meet his needs and make a payment to bring the cost to Motability below the threshold.

rockingbilly

Deleted_User wrote: »

But shouldn't it just come down to the maths? If Motability can still after three years make a profit on a car that is more expensive than this new limit then shouldn't such a car be allowed to be on the scheme?

The vast majority of 'run of the mill' cars 3 years old have a value of approx. 47% of the price when new. The more expensive the car the more Motability lose on the depreciation.
That is one argument to restrict cars on the scheme by price.
The second argument is that you have to consider what the general public perceive. If they work full time and every three years are only able to buy and run a Vauxhall Astra why would it be right to see those on the scheme having a £50,000 Merc or BMW on their drive. It would p*** them off big style. So to placate them the cars on the scheme are restricted to what the ordinary working guy could afford themselves - that makes everybody happy.
There is one proviso that if those on the scheme want a £50,000 car then they should be prepared to fund the £20,000 difference as the advance payment.

rockingbilly

FBaby wrote: »

Yeah, I too looked at getting my ideal car, and then without any previous warning, we were told that we wouldn't get any pay increase this year, even though we had year in the last 10, so couldn't afford it any longer. Bummer!

Trying hard to understand how an upgraded sound system will help any particular disability, except maybe being of hard hearing, but that wouldn't get you the mobility element anyway.

.

Yes that struck me too. How on earth does a glass roof, a top of the range HiFi and 19" low profile alloys make any difference to a disabled person.
Oh I see, the glass roof is there so others can see you, the HiFi is there to annoy the rest of us with head banging and booming rap music whilst stationery at the traffic lights and the 19" alloys are there so that the car can 'tramline' in the groves of the road thus making it possible that the car steers itself whilst the driver is smoking a joint?