NEWBIE - Indigo PCN - Railway Station - dilemma

failedcommuter

Evening all,

Before we go further I want to be completely transparent:
1. I am a Newbie, however I have fully read the main article as recommended on countless other threads (and more besides on the KADOE contract etc.), all of which are hugely useful.
2. If I decide to proceed with the appeals, I will dutifully follow all of the advice, however this thread is predominantly about making my decision as to whether or not to just pay before proceed (see dilemma in full below).


Dilemma

Overview: received a fine (:T) for "Breach 1: failing to have a valid ticket displayed", ticket was received at before I had bought a digital ticket (which I did at work using the Indigo app). Arrived back at said station to a PCN.

The complication to this otherwise simple case is that the car in question belongs to my future Father in-Law. At all costs I want to avoid a letter arriving that would panic him / cause issues / irritate him / etc. Basically anything I decide to do, I wish for him to have no knowledge of & I am not prepared to sit outside their house sifting through the mail for the next 6 months. HOWEVER, as a fully paid up, !!!!ed off train commuter from the south that spends the best part of 6/7k a year on parking + trains I am willing to fight this.

I would be up for going all the way, however to reiterate, I want to make sure it stays between me + the PPC + this forum. Which is the nub of the issue: is this possible / realistic or should I just cave in now?

For everyone's info in case they were wondering, I pay for my parking ticket through the Indigo app every day, normally on the train after having parked. This was a genuine oversight where I forgot to (it's January...) rather than trying to 'game' the system, although clearly there is some fault.

Advice welcome...

Quick read summary
PPC: Indigo Car Parking Ltd
Car Park Type: Railway station carpark
Breach: for not having a valid ticket (although one was bought after the ticket guy had come around)

pappa_golf

Quick read summary
PPC: Indigo Car Parking Ltd BPA company
Car Park Type: Railway station carpark BYLAW land
Breach: for not having a valid ticket (although one was bought) when the ticket guy had come around) No such offence under bylaws


your case is one of many on bylaw land , under the POFa2012 bylaw land is non applicable.

what indigo are trying to do is to get you to pay a bribe , so that they do not tell the landowner , who is actually the only person that can take you to court (within 6 mths of the incident)

there are differences between driver/keeper on bylaw land , await others , all popla cases are on hold pending goverment review


your search pattern should be indigo and bylaws

https://popla.co.uk/ you want this to time out , every letter the last possible date etc etc

Coupon-mad

If I decide to proceed with the appeals, I will dutifully follow all of the advice, however this thread is predominantly about making my decision as to whether or not to just pay before proceed (see dilemma in full below).

OK. That's easy! No dilemma.

The complication to this otherwise simple case is that the car in question belongs to my future Father in-Law. At all costs I want to avoid a letter arriving that would panic him / cause issues / irritate him / etc.

OK so appeal in your name giving your address, using the template in the NEWBIES thread.

Tell your future FIL that it is possible (because this is a rogue industry being scrutinised yet again by the Government this year) that they might send a scary 'PPN Debt Recovery' letter to HIM anyway, even while the case is under appeal. If so, the good news is he will likely have grounds to sue Indigo for data misuse (no reasonable cause to get his data from the DVLA, as the charge was already appealed). Claims like that - to get HIM damages for distress - range from £250 to £750...and require no loss to have to be proved.

Explain that and crack on with your appeal as per the NEWBIES thread. We have never lost one v Indigo. I took on 3 at once for a friend six months ago about a local train station car park (a daft 'invalid' permit allegation) and she trusted me, and they were cancelled.

failedcommuter

Thanks both for your replies.

OK so appeal in your name giving your address, using the template in the NEWBIES thread.

Does this mean I should I declare myself the "keeper" ?

Explain that and crack on with your appeal as per the NEWBIES thread.

Assume you mean that I should proceed as described and appeal around day 21-24 via email using the aforementioned template?

We have never lost one v Indigo.

your case is one of many on bylaw land , under the POFa2012 bylaw land is non applicable.

what indigo are trying to do is to get you to pay a bribe , so that they do not tell the landowner , who is actually the only person that can take you to court (within 6 mths of the incident)

Quick one to these - the station in question is "operated" by South Eastern, with the Car Park administrated by Indigo. Does this still fall into the Byelaw area, and what will this mean going forward, is the process significantly different to the one in the Newbie thread?

Fruitcake

You should not reveal the driver's identity except in certain specific situations, which this is not.

You should edit your first post to remove the times that can identify the PCN, and thus the PPC can use your post to identify you as the driver.
You should then edit your post above to remove any suggestion as to who was driving.

Thankfully only the vehicle owner (not driver or even keeper) can be held liable for byelaw infringements, but appealing as the day to day keeper gives you additional appeal points and thus protection that the driver does not have.

Then send the BPA template in blue around day 26 as already advised, and detailed in the NEWBIES thread.

Coupon-mad

Just don't call yourself the owner! Railway byelaws relate to the 'owner' of a vehicle.

failedcommuter

Thankfully only the vehicle owner (not driver or even keeper) can be held liable for byelaw infringements, but appealing as the day to day keeper gives you additional appeal points and thus protection that the driver does not have.

Apologies if I am being remedial, I just want to get everything absolutely correct:
- I will appeal to the PCN per the Newbie thread on day 26 using Indigo's online system
- I will appeal using the BPA template per the Newbie thread, declaring myself the 'Keeper of the Vehicle' giving my postal address + name

QUESTIONS:
1. If they can only go after the owner, will this mean that they can ignore my appeals and therefore still go after my FIL, therefore doing exactly what I don't want to happen?!
2. At what point would they be able to target the owner of the vehicle (assuming they were so inclined), immediately / after rejecting appeal / after POPLA rejected appeal / etc.?
3. By declaring myself "Keeper of the Vehicle" would I be making an infraction on any rules / laws / byelaws by doing so?


Again thank you all for your time, and for helping to provide advice.

Quentin

failedcommuter wrote: »

QUESTIONS:
1. If they can only go after the owner, will this mean that they can ignore my appeals and therefore still go after my FIL, therefore doing exactly what I don't want to happen?!
.......

Yes it's possible (see #3 - advise him of the possibility of a scary letter arriving)

pappa_golf

two lots of laws in place

bylaws and private parking laws , bylaw is the one to worry about for the first 6 mths , after that they cannot do anything

private parking laws (?) they will try to get anybody , they will not care , they will tell lies.

4 mths on and the DVLA/goverment still cannot define bylaws , all cases are on hold

get them in the "popla" route and they cannot do anything (inc chase FIL) untill popla sort it