Some clarity please England PCN - Live in Scotland

sterling01

Hi,


Im looking for some clarity please. I have read a lot of the stickies and newbie stuff, but feel I am in an odd position.


I received a PCN from Care Parking at Chalon Way, St. Helens, England. I stay in Scotland.


Unfortunately I appealed by email before I read this forum. They refused the appeal. I now have a reminder notice letter.


Should I just ignore this completely?


Thanks

pappa_golf

if anchor security systems want to "pop" their cherry , scootland will be a long way to go http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Anchor_Security_Services.html


expect lots of junk mail don,t reply to it , IF you get court papers , return

sterling01

Thanks for the quick reply. One more bit of info, I dont know if its relevant.


The sign on-site states "This carpark is monitored by ANPR systems" When I look on the BPA website under AOS members, they dont YES under the ANPR heading.

pappa_golf

parking companies tell lies , ANPR can be frightened man with a kodac hiding in a corner , to scared to get out of his van.

basicly , anpr = no ticket on car , they have to write to you within 14 day**

ticket on car = they cannot get info from dvla untill day 28 and must write to you by day 56**


** to comply with the POFa2012 , in orderv to hold the keeper liable


*** the POFa2012 was never passed in scotland and they can only go after the driver

pity you named yourself as the driver

but what the hell, pigs might fly and care might embarrass themselves in court


PS , on the letter (refusal) is there any mention of Protection of freedom act or POFa2012 ? stating that they are going to come after the keeper?

sterling01

Here is the text on the refusal letter. I have blanked out personal info. I appealed by email and they sent this back by email with the letter as a PDF attachment.




When parking at Chalon Way the driver of this vehicle agreed to pay a Parking Charge of


£100 if they did not park in accordance with the terms printed on the contractual warning signs.


· The contractual warning signs in place clearly state: The vehicle was parked in contravention of this term of the contractual warning signs.


· As you can see from the photographic evidence linked below the vehicle was clearly parked across two parking bays. This fact has been confirmed in your appeal.


· The circumstances detailed in your appeal do not negate the parking conditions at this location.


· As can be seen in the images linked below. There were multiple empty parking bays near to the vehicle when the PCN was issued.


· This PCN was issued correctly.


Photographic evidence supporting the issue of this PCN can be viewed by following the link and entering your vehicle registration and PCN reference number; http://pay.careparking.co.uk. Copies
of these photographs have already been provided as requested.


As you appealed within the 14 day discounted period the parking charge amount has remained at the reduced payment amount of £60, the amount due will remain at the discounted rate for a further 14 days from the day after the date of this letter. After the 14 days the full amount will be due and payable.


You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. This decision is final and no further communication will be accepted by Care Parking with regard to this appeal, therefore you
are requested to now submit your payment of the monies owing.


You now have a number of options from which to choose:


1. Pay the parking charge.


2. Make an appeal to POPLA – The Independent Appeals Service by making your appeal online at


www.popla.co.uk.


a. Your POPLA verification code is: XXXXXXXXXX. Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case, the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate of £60 will immediately end. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA. If you wish to appeal to POPLA this must be done within 28 days of the date of this notification.


b. By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to
appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.


3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.


This letter and all other correspondence received in relation to this PCN may be used to form part of our case for court action if necessary.
=======END OF LETTER=====


Mitigation. This was the first time I had been in St. Helens in my life. On entering the car park, I was looking for a parking space, not any signs. Being from Scotland, we don't have private carparks like this. Apart from disabled spaces, the only space available was beside a people carrier. The woman had both passenger side doors and tailgate open as she was struggling to get her shopping and 3 toddlers into the car. I needed to get cash from the ATM, so parked across 2 spaces to give her room to sort herself out and I would park properly on my return. I went the 500 yards to the ATM, got cash and walked back to the car. On my return, she had left and there was a ticket on the window of my car.

pogofish

Telling them you were the driver is highly inadvisable. You always challenge as the Rake

They can only pursue the driver in Scotland and if you don't tell them, there is nothing more they can do

However court cases involving an identified driver are very rare in Scotland and most have been brought by another PPC, so the chances of anything more are negligible.

Ignore completely from now on unless you get a proper Lbcc

pogofish

Also if they offered you POPLA, then that's a matter for Trading Standards. POFA2012 was never enacted here, so their using its provisions is at best deception.

System

Also if they offered you POPLA, then that's a matter for Trading Standards. POFA2012 was never enacted here, so their using its provisions is at best deception.

With all due respect, this is nonsense. The location of the car park (England) decides the legal basis so POFA does apply. However if Care were to take legal action, it would have to be in a court local to the driver (known or not).

It is the mechanism for serving papers on someone north of the border or in Northern Ireland or Isle of Man (3 different legal jurisdictions) that is the problem. Too costly, too complex and not worth it.

Herzlos

Did the OP name the driver?

From Scotland, there's nothing they can actually do, but POPLA costs them money and may get them to go away, so I'd appeal to POPLA, with all the usual stuff but don't mention you're not in England.

Or you can just ignore anything else they send you except court papers.

sterling01

Hi, Thanks to all that have replied.


Unfortunately in my original email to Care appealing the ticket, I made the statement "I parked between two bays"


This email obviously had my name on it

Coupon-mad

OK so have you got a POPLA code? Still in date (they last about 30 days only). Possibly consider a POPLA appeal but if not, ignore them.

sterling01 wrote: »

Unfortunately in my original email to Care appealing the ticket, I made the statement "I parked between two bays"

That was unfortunate. NEVER do that again if you ever get another such piece of rubbish, you live in Scotland, don't go giving private parking firms the piece of the jigsaw they might need! Lucky for you it's only Care Parking who are not litigious.

DO NOT PAY.

PERSONALLY I AGREE WITH AL THE HIBBY - IGNORE THEM (NO TRYING POPLA IN THIS CASE UNLESS YOU HAD A SOLID APPEAL).