Permitted occupier confusion

stardust09

Hi,

I live in a shared house. Two months into our contract, a housemate moved out. As the letting agency didn't want to issue a new contract (we are all on a joint contract), they allegedly got the new person to sign to say they had permission to be a 'permitted occupier' with the understanding that they would be added to a new contract when it was due in four months' time. None of us were told about this by the letting agency or were asked to sign as well. We have no proper idea what a permitted occupier is, except Google suggests that they seem to have no rights, could not pay rent (and leave us liable) and don't legally have to pay council tax.

Is this standard practice? And does it mean that a permitted occupier could just move out with no notice? There is lots on the internet about tenants moving out and leaving the permitted occupier homeless, but nothing about the permitted occupier's rights to leave, or even if they have to give any notice.

Does anyone know more about this? I think it's poor practice that the [STRIKE]greedy, money-grabbing, only-out-for-their-own-interests[/STRIKE] letting agency didn't inform us that the new tenant would only have permitted occupier status and what that involved, let alone failing to provide us with the clause break document.

Thanks.

Pixie5740

If no deed of variation was carried out and no new tenancy agreement issued then it's unclear if this new person is a tenant. Who does the new person pay their rent to?

stardust09

18 months ago, our letting agency asked us to stop paying our rent is four separate payments and instead pay it as one lump sum. They said this was their standard practice for joint tenancies and saved them having to track 4 separate payments each month. Therefore the other housemates transfer the money to me, and I have to pay it. One housemate, who is a proper tenant, refuse to do this and still pays his separately period I hope that clarifies things.

Pixie5740

I could be wrong but it sounds like the permitted occupier is possibly your lodger. Did the permitted occupier pay a deposit, if so to whom and was (s)he charged any fees by the letting agency?

stardust09

PS, I know the person has signed something with the letting agent to give them permission to live here, but I have no idea what it is. The new tenant said it allowed them to be a permitted occupier. They were also told that they could not legally move in until they had been credit and reference checked and signed that agreement (whatever it was). Oh, and coughed up a princely sum of £395 for those checks and agreement (generously discounted down from £495!!!!). I really have no idea what's going on. I am just wondering whether that means they can leave without giving any notice, when the rest of us are bound into a 6 month agreeemnt. If they could just walk out, we'd be in hot water....

stardust09

With regards to the deposit, this is always paid to the exiting tenant and a letter is sent to the letting agency confining the deposit has been transferred. I presume they then update this name with the tenancy deposit service. Saves them having to handle deposits again.

Pixie5740

stardust09 wrote: »

With regards to the deposit, this is always paid to the exiting tenant and a letter is sent to the letting agency confining the deposit has been transferred. I presume they then update this name with the tenancy deposit service. Saves them having to handle deposits again.

:eek::eek::eek:

Pixie5740

stardust09 wrote: »

With regards to the deposit, this is always paid to the exiting tenant and a letter is sent to the letting agency confining the deposit has been transferred. I presume they then update this name with the tenancy deposit service. Saves them having to handle deposits again.

Well whether the person can up and leave with little or no notice depends on whether or not they are a lodger or a tenant. I'm leaning towards lodger but give Shelter a call to check.

Pixie5740

The whole set up sounds like a cluster!!!! to be honest. Tenants with joint fixed term contracts coming and going as they please, deposits being given to the outgoing tenant, deeds of variations not being drawn up.

What happens with the last tenants move out? Are they going to have to cover the cost of damage caused by all tenants who have ever lived there? Not that they will definitely receive anything back unless the lead tenant whose name the deposit was registered under is still living in the property at that time.

G_M

Please confirm and complete this summary:

* you and X other people (?) have a joint tenancy of 6 (?) months, commencing 2 months ago on xx/xx/2016)
* One of those joint tenants has left but remains a joint tenant
* The joint tenancy has a rent of £X per month. You pay all of this except for £Y which is paid separately by one of the other remaining joint tenants
* A 'Permitted Occupier' moved in on xx/xx/2016
* this PO was found by us/the agency
* You have consented to the PO's occupation (since you have taken no steps to evict!)
* this PO has paid a deposit to the LL/agent
* the PO does/does not pay rent to the agent/you
* you (all the joint tenants) have paid a £Z deposit which is/is not protected

Legal points:
1) Since there is a valid tenancy, the LL/agent cannot give consent for the PO to move in - only you can do this
2) You remain fully responsible for all the rent shown on the tenancy agreement (as do all the other named joint tenants including the one who has left)
3) the deposit you paid when the tenancy was created remains held by the LL/agent (presumably protected in a deposit scheme) - anything that was paid to the joint tenant who left is simply a side agreement between you and him. Nothing to do with the LL/agent.

What do you want to happen?
* To get rid of this PO?
* To get him added to the tenancy agreement?
* To get him to start paying you a % of the total rent?

Miss_Samantha

This is one of the situations that are such an inextricable mess, combined with an incompetent (at best) or crooked (at worst) agent that IMHO the best piece of advice for a tenant is: Leave ASAP and never look back.