The 2017 HAMISH_MCTAVISH Predictions Thread

kinger101

CLAPTON wrote: »

clearly importing people actually simply transfers the problem from richer countries to poorer countries.
liberals are very good at ignoring the consequences of their theories.
what you are 'happy' with is irrelevant : whats matters are the facts and consequences.

Sometimes. Depriving a country of healthcare professionals causing problems. If they couldn't find work at home anyway, I don't see what their country is being deprived of.

Many people send money back home so I'm not sure how that makes the recipient countries poorer.

What I'm happy with may not be relevant to you, but I'm allowed to express an opinion.

The "fact" we seemed to be discussing was whether liberals support population growth. I'd class myself as a liberal and I don't. So it rather seems it was a generalization and not a fact.

vivatifosi

Where did the stuff on 2017 go? Please don't let this become another thread on the rights and wrongs of Brexit, there are plenty of those. The forecasting threads are good fun but it will be hard to review at the end of the year if it carries on like this.

kinger101

My 2017 Prediction: Brexit will still the No.1 bickering point. No.2 will be whether Channel 4's Bake-Off has been ruined or totally ruined.

Conrad

BobQ wrote: »

It di I agree, but we are where are. The problems of today are solved in the long term by training doctors and nurses for the future. But in the short term we need to allow immigration to cover for the skills we currently lack.

Great news for the very poor societies they leave behind
But hey as long as we can celebrate our good fortune, all is well...

BobQ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The problem isn't as much a lack of doctors - many home grown doctors move abroad. It's simply poor work/life conditions compared to places like New Zealand and Oz.

True but it is still part of the problem that we need to have trained enough doctors, nurses etc to allow for some leaving the UK and their terms and conditons and working environment is all part of the mix.

This is the age old incompetence of Government and the public sector. If you introduce oppressive working conditions in hospitals that create stress and apply arbitrary pay caps you get unforseen consequences. Of course the alternative view is that this is just a way of undermining the NHS and that has been going on since Mrs Thatcher said the NHS was safe in her hands.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

True but it is still part of the problem that we need to have trained enough doctors, nurses etc to allow for some leaving the UK and their terms and conditons and working environment is all part of the mix.

This is the age old incompetence of Government and the public sector. If you introduce oppressive working conditions in hospitals that create stress and apply arbitrary pay caps you get unforseen consequences. Of course the alternative view is that this is just a way of undermining the NHS and that has been going on since Mrs Thatcher said the NHS was safe in her hands.

we could probably solve a lot of the issues with the NHS by introducing a modest charge to visit a hospital and to visit a GP

kinger101

CLAPTON wrote: »

we could probably solve a lot of the issues with the NHS by introducing a modest charge to visit a hospital and to visit a GP

I can see the motivation behind it (reducing frivolous visits) but I'm not convinced it's will be cost-effective. Firstly, those that cannot pay might go to A&E instead (which presumably wouldn't charge). Secondly, for some people a £10 charge might be the difference between eating and not eating. By delaying treatment, genuine diseases might become more difficult and expensive to treat.

Herzlos

You could achieve the same sort of thing by hiring a triage nurse for each doctors practice, who will triage all patients and schedule doctor time as needed (ours used to do this for emergency appointments), and kick out the people that don't need to see a doctor (sending them home, to a pharmacy, clinic or onto hospital).

Sure, it costs a bit more and requires some actual work, but it should result in a massive improvement of doctor throughput and massively reduced waiting times. I'm not convinced that suits the agenda of people who have a got to gain by running it into the ground and then selling it to their investment groups.

Charging money will stop those that need the help most, whilst probably not affecting those that clog up the NHS most.

michaels

kinger101 wrote: »

I can see the motivation behind it (reducing frivolous visits) but I'm not convinced it's will be cost-effective. Firstly, those that cannot pay might go to A&E instead (which presumably wouldn't charge). Secondly, for some people a £10 charge might be the difference between eating and not eating. By delaying treatment, genuine diseases might become more difficult and expensive to treat.

I fear we are off topic but I think there should be the option to pay a small charge to queue jump at gp/a&e - obviously not above those with medical urgency but for the people who can wait anyway.

davomcdave

vivatifosi wrote: »

Where did the stuff on 2017 go? Please don't let this become another thread on the rights and wrongs of Brexit, there are plenty of those. The forecasting threads are good fun but it will be hard to review at the end of the year if it carries on like this.

The simplest thing to do is to report off topic posts if you want to keep posting on topic.

This board does seem to be the Brexit plus some other trivia board.