step dad died will invalid

Yorkshireman99

KentishLady wrote: »

Thanks all for your input. It turns out the appointment she made was not with a solicitor but with a company who deal with wills and probate.

I have strongly advised she gets both legal and financial advice.

I can't remember how to quote so sorry if this is clunky!

Theoretica - it is highly unlikely the will is valid but this will be fully checked out. They married more than 5 years after the will was made and it makes no mention of marriage or engagement.

Mojisola - mum has kept her will updated but she could not force her husband to do the same. Unfortunately he suffered from dementia for a number of years before he died and when he still had capacity refused to make a new will or arrange power of attorney etc. He was clear he wanted the house to go to his wife and had verbally told the children they would not inherit a share (which led to them falling out with him for over a year) but clearly he didn't fully understand that without an updated will his wishes were unlikely to be carried out.

Realistically step-dad's children will inherit something, but it isn't yet clear how much that will be as not all debts have been confirmed, there may be inheritance tax to pay, and one of the children is considering nominating mum to receive their portion.

I have briefly discussed with my sibling tonight and between us we will help raise funds to buy out our step siblings if necessary and it is what mum wants to do.

Clearly there are financial implications for us and our husband's too so it will be imperative for us to have independent financial and legal advice.

One thing I am not clear on is how the inheritance tax is calculated. Is it on the full value of his estate (less his allowance) or is the bit mum inherits excluded at this point?


Kl.

It sounds like she has been bamboozled into consulting a will eriting company rather than a solicitor. It is essential she gets professional advice from a solicitor. I am sure you realise this but she needs to be left in no doubt as to the folly of not doing so.

Keep_pedalling

Inheritance tax is not an issue on the figures you provided. There is none to pay with the bulk of the estate still going to your mum as the amount his children will inherit is below their father's nil rate band.

IHT may be an issue on her death however.

Whatever you do think very carefully about the financial implications of buying you step siblings out. If it leaves you in financial difficult don't do it. Having a sizeable estate as you mother has with few liquid assets is not a great way to enjoy a comfortable old age and once she has had a chance to grieve she should really consider her options with regards to the house.

securityguy

KentishLady wrote: »

Theoretica - it is highly unlikely the will is valid but this will be fully checked out. They married more than 5 years after the will was made and it makes no mention of marriage or engagement.

Then it's invalid. The end. There is really no point getting it "fully checked out": it is a waste of time, money and emotional energy. A five year old will which is not explicitly drawn up in contemplation of marriage to a named person is just a piece of paper.

Mojisola - mum has kept her will updated but she could not force her husband to do the same. Unfortunately he suffered from dementia for a number of years before he died and when he still had capacity refused to make a new will or arrange power of attorney etc. He was clear he wanted the house to go to his wife and had verbally told the children they would not inherit a share

But he didn't leave a will, he died intestate, and the estate is large enough that intestacy means that they do get a share. In some families, the beneficiaries in intestacy use a deed of variation to restore matters to what everyone believes to be right; clearly, that isn't going to happen in this case. There is nothing you can do about this; a court case would be expensive, messy and completely doomed to failure.

I have briefly discussed with my sibling tonight and between us we will help raise funds to buy out our step siblings if necessary and it is what mum wants to do.

Leaving her asset rich and income poor? Is that really the best long-term outcome?

Clearly there are financial implications for us and our husband's too so it will be imperative for us to have independent financial and legal advice.

If my spouse proposed buying a house for their mother, who had received a substantial legacy, I would consult lawyers, and they wouldn't be property lawyers.

Malthusian

KentishLady wrote: »

Mojisola - mum has kept her will updated but she could not force her husband to do the same. Unfortunately he suffered from dementia for a number of years before he died and when he still had capacity refused to make a new will or arrange power of attorney etc. He was clear he wanted the house to go to his wife and had verbally told the children they would not inherit a share (which led to them falling out with him for over a year) but clearly he didn't fully understand that without an updated will his wishes were unlikely to be carried out.

Words are wind. If he wanted the house to go to his wife solely he would have written a valid Will. If he mistakenly thought that his old Will was still valid that is one thing, but if he "refused" to make a new Will it suggests someone must have told him to or suggested he should, probably someone who knew that a Will five years before marriage was worthless.

Sorry, but there really isn't any point expending emotional energy on what you think he might have wanted. The only expression of his wishes that has any practical effect now, is the fact that he died having refused to make a valid Will.

One thing I am not clear on is how the inheritance tax is calculated. Is it on the full value of his estate (less his allowance) or is the bit mum inherits excluded at this point?

Hopefully I can get it right this time...

Legacies to spouses are free of Inheritance Tax so there is none to pay on the £371k left to your mother.

Everyone has a "nil rate band" of £325k which they can leave to people not their spouse free of Inheritance Tax, with everything above £325k subject to IHT. The £121k left to the children falls within this so there will be no IHT to pay.

The unused £204k of dad's nil rate band will pass to mum, so when she dies she can leave £529k free of Inheritance Tax. At this point there probably will be IHT to pay. *edit* Although it doesn't apply to your Dad, the new residential nil rate band may apply to her, so it could be more than this, but that's beside the point of the thread.

I echo previous posters that your mum should consider carefully whether keeping the house is really the best thing for her. If she and dad had been living in a rented house somewhere, and he'd died leaving her £371,000 in cash to add to the £475,000 in cash that had in her own name, would she insist on using all her wealth to buy and move into this particular house worth nearly £1 million? And taking money from her children to make up the difference?

Keep_pedalling

The street I live in is mainly made up of semi detached houses that make £550k in good condition, but there are a few that are occupied by elderly occupants who have lived here many years, don't want to leave but can no longer afford to maintain them properly, and they are virtually living like paupers while their house deteriorates around them and it is sad to see.

getmore4less

There is always the possibility that he knew what he was doing despite all that had been said by him.


When it comes to keeping houses in the family that is a great idea if it is a house that someone eventually needs/wants to have as their family home.

Now is the obvious time to review those wants and needs making a suitable plan for the future.

Yorkshireman99

It strikes me that this idea of a family home passed down through generations is often found more in fiction than in the real world though of course it does happen with large country estates often those of the nobility. Often such estates are tied up in a family trust that in the past would have been entailed though this is no longer possible in the way it was. pre 1925? When a complete revolution in estates in land was enacted.

Savvy_Sue

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

It sounds like she has been bamboozled into consulting a will eriting company rather than a solicitor. It is essential she gets professional advice from a solicitor. I am sure you realise this but she needs to be left in no doubt as to the folly of not doing so.

And it might be wise to make sure it's a STEP solicitor, definitely not a general high street chap doing a bit of everything, you need someone whose bread and butter is wills and estates.

KentishLady

Thanks again everybody.

I am now much clearer on what the iht situation is, and how much the children stand to inherit.

One of the 5 has indicated that he will nominate mum to receive his share under a deed of variation which is very kind of him.

In terms of leaving her asset rich and income poor, that isn't really the issue for us.

She has reasonable pensions and with the spousal pensions her income is pretty good. She has no debt, and has a chunk of savings/investments albeit not enough savings to buy out all the stepchildren's inheritance on her own. She also has a lodger generating additional income and lives fairly simply - doesn't like travelling abroad, has an allotment, takes holidays at my house, and doesn't have expensive hobbies or sky/virgin tv.

She is considering her options and we are all aware that on her death or if she goes into a care home the house will probably have to be sold if she is still living there.

She does want to stay in the home she has lived in for the last 35 years. At least for a couple of years to allow her time to grieve and recover after the past gruelling 6 years of caring for her husband.

She just wants a couple of years breathing space without receiving verbal abuse or being bullied by his children to enjoy their home and memories before deciding whether to stay in London in the home (in which case I would move to her house with my husband) or sell and buy a flat in London, and a second home in kent jointly with me or my sister.

If we do help in raising funds to get the children out of her hair, then we would of course get financial advice about the most tax efficient and safe way of lending her the money.

KL.

KentishLady

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

And it might be wise to make sure it's a STEP solicitor, definitely not a general high street chap doing a bit of everything, you need someone whose bread and butter is wills and estates.

I've asked co-op legal services to come and give us a quote for administering the estate. Not all their solicitors/conultants are step registered though.