Right of Way and legal obligations - what can I do?

crazycatlady1984

Hi all,

I live in an upper conversion and another couple live in the lower flat. There is no access from their garden so they have a right of way through our garden and then down our driveway in order to take their bins out to the street etc.

There is a wall with a gate in it which secures the back of the house and the garden. This is fitted with two locks, a Yale and a mortise for added security, for which we both have keys.

The issue is that this couple consistently leave the gate unlocked and not even closed properly. This means that not only is is not secured from a security point of view, but that it bangs about in the wind (particularly in the winter) and gets damaged. My husband then has to fix it.

I am at a loss as to what to do. I want to play things with a straight bat, as it were and therefore what I really want to know is surely if you have a right of way over someone's land you have an obligation to adhere to certain rules? However, the issue is the attitude of the couple. In normal circumstances, the answer is "just speak to them", I know that, but they are a very odd couple. They are elderly and they are very mean-spirited and I know they are doing it deliberately and that they want a reaction out of us (for example they were dragging their bins around all day Sunday and Monday, doing nothing but taking them backwards and forwards, even though bin day is not until Friday). The hate that was there before became so wrecked that the lock no longer worked and the wood was all warped etc. They were very quick to put notes through our door insisting we fix it. We did, we replaced the whole gate and put mortice lock on. On one occasion when I left for work and forgot to lock it behind me, the wife was all over me the minute I got home because apparantly there was "someone" in the garden (which I find a bit convenient and hard to believe). Nevertheless, we fitted a Yale lock so it would lock automatically behind us. They are now putting the snib on the Yale lock and leaving it to bang about in the wind overnight.

As I understood it, they have a right of way over our land and through our gate, but the gate is ours and therefore a) it is our responsibility to maintain and b) it is up to us whether we lock it or not (or indeed even have a gate) as long as they have a key for access. However, I would expect that they would have an obligation to respect our property and leave the gate as they find it (ie locked), for both security and so it doesn't get damaged.

Oh, we also have a pet (who they hate) and are expecting a child (their attitude has got 100 times worse since we told them we are expecting; haven't spoken to us at all, to the point of ignoring us when we say "hello" in the street/garden etc :eek:) so having the garden secure is pretty important to us.

Any advice on the legalities of this much appreciated

getmore4less

They are now putting the snib on the Yale lock

that will be easily disabled or get a lock without that feature.

also add a spring closer to the gate

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ironmongery/d170/Shed+%26+Gate+Ironmongery/sd2947/Heavy+Duty+Gate+Spring/p66116

you could also use this type of latch

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ironmongery/d170/Shed+%26+Gate+Ironmongery/sd2947/Self+Locking+Auto+Field+Gate+Latch/p41012



cheaper
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ironmongery/d170/Shed+%26+Gate+Ironmongery/sd2947/Auto+Gate+Latch/p94322

crazycatlady1984

Omg, I didn't even think of a solution like that - thank you!!! :T

Putting the snib on is useful for us on occasion but I guess that is possibly just the price we would have to pay.

Thank you :money:will suggest that to hubby

getmore4less wrote: »

They are now putting the snib on the Yale lock

that will be easily disabled or get a lock without that feature.

also add a spring closer to the gate

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ironmongery/d170/Shed+%26+Gate+Ironmongery/sd2947/Heavy+Duty+Gate+Spring/p66116

you could also use this type of latch

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ironmongery/d170/Shed+%26+Gate+Ironmongery/sd2947/Self+Locking+Auto+Field+Gate+Latch/p41012



cheaper
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ironmongery/d170/Shed+%26+Gate+Ironmongery/sd2947/Auto+Gate+Latch/p94322

Mojisola

crazycatlady1984 wrote: »

I live in an upper conversion and another couple live in the lower flat. There is no access from their garden so they have a right of way through our garden and then down our driveway in order to take their bins out to the street etc.

What is in the deeds about the ROW? It is worded as specifically as "taking bins out" or the more usual freedom for them and anyone visiting their home to use the ROW?

The issue is that this couple consistently leave the gate unlocked and not even closed properly.

I am at a loss as to what to do. I want to play things with a straight bat, as it were and therefore what I really want to know is surely if you have a right of way over someone's land you have an obligation to adhere to certain rules?

As I understood it, they have a right of way over our land and through our gate, but the gate is ours and therefore a) it is our responsibility to maintain and b) it is up to us whether we lock it or not (or indeed even have a gate) as long as they have a key for access.

However, I would expect that they would have an obligation to respect our property and leave the gate as they find it (ie locked), for both security and so it doesn't get damaged.

If they have to right to use the pathway whenever they want, that's exactly what they can do. You can't impede their use by locking the gate; if you give them a key, they don't have any obligation to shut or lock the gate after use.

With a ROW through the garden, a child on the way and neighbours like this, you may need to start looking for a new home or have to put up with years of aggravation and worry.

crazycatlady1984

Mojisola wrote: »

If they have to right to use the pathway whenever they want, that's exactly what they can do. You can't impede their use by locking the gate; if you give them a key, they don't have any obligation to shut or lock the gate after use.

With a ROW through the garden, a child on the way and neighbours like this, you may need to start looking for a new home or have to put up with years of aggravation and worry.

No, it's not specifically for bins, it is just a generic right of way. They take the p1ss with it, just to annoy me, and that's fine, I accept they can walk through whenever they want, I don't rise to it.

Can that be right though, that they can traipse through my garden causing damage to my property? That doesn't seem right or logical to me, surely there is some sort of burden on them to adhere to common courtesy? Even the countryside code expects gates to be shut etc.

Mojisola

crazycatlady1984 wrote: »

No, it's not specifically for bins, it is just a generic right of way. They take the p1ss with it, just to annoy me, and that's fine, I accept they can walk through whenever they want, I don't rise to it.

Can that be right though, that they can traipse through my garden causing damage to my property? That doesn't seem right or logical to me, surely there is some sort of burden on them to adhere to common courtesy? Even the countryside code expects gates to be shut etc.

But that is just an expectation, just like the owner of the land with a ROW would expect any users to be careful and willing to relock gates, etc, but there's no law says that they have to do these things.

crazycatlady1984

Mojisola wrote: »

But that is just an expectation, just like the owner of the land with a ROW would expect any users to be careful and willing to relock gates, etc, but there's no law says that they have to do these things.

If that is correct, and if I was to amend my locks per the suggestion above (removing the snib and putting self closers on), if they were to then deliberately wedge it open with something, surely to god THAT isn't allowed??

We also have a right of way over their property....we never use it as have no real need. I would never dream of using it just to be an annoyance.....baffles me that there are people in the world like them that do things like that just to be bad. Unfortunately, after a few years of living above them I have realised that things like this are the only things that give them pleasure. Which is exactly why I try not to give them a reaction.

Mojisola

crazycatlady1984 wrote: »

If that is correct, and if I was to amend my locks per the suggestion above (removing the snib and putting self closers on), if they were to then deliberately wedge it open with something, surely to god THAT isn't allowed??

The owner of the ‘dominant tenement’ could indeed wedge the gate open without any comeback from you in law.

rach_k

Would it be possible to fence off an access path for them to use for their bins etc, perhaps across the end of the garden so you just lose a narrow strip? That seems to be quite a common set-up. If you make the pathway as wide as the current gate, it wouldn't be limiting the size of what they can bring through any more than it currently is.

crazycatlady1984

Mojisola wrote: »

The owner of the ‘dominant tenement’ could indeed wedge the gate open without any comeback from you in law.

So they're the dominant tenement? Even though it's my land? That doesn't seem right to me. At all.

Mojisola

rach_k wrote: »

Would it be possible to fence off an access path for them to use for their bins etc, perhaps across the end of the garden so you just lose a narrow strip? That seems to be quite a common set-up. If you make the pathway as wide as the current gate, it wouldn't be limiting the size of what they can bring through any more than it currently is.

You can't just reroute a ROW and it's unlikely that these particular neighbours would agree to such a change if they are taking pleasure in upsetting the OP.