on screen PCN by UKPC

Coupon-mad

Yes we are, they will reject the appeal anyway so no need to add stuff.

So at POPLA stage you can add any specifics at the start of that appeal (then add the POPLA templates from post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, including if they forget to send a NTK).

lydiagough

Hi

I have recently moved onto a UKPC controlled housing estate. Most bays are numbered but there a very few that are allocated for visitors.

When I first moved onto the estate we didnt receive permits for our vehicles as we only have a 1 bed flat. We have tried to be smart and avoid parking there in peak times, but when we occasionally need to, we have used the 24hr visitors permits given to us by UKPC.

Me and my partner probably now have around 9 tickets, between us, from them, requesting payments of £120.00 a go (what a rip off). The first few I appealed as we were displaying VALID PERMITS?? that were clearly shown in the images they took of both vehicles too - confused? After receiving a few, I gave up and came on here.

I also recently received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd demanding £160.00 or else? I have read lots of threads but no one seems to have received more than 1 ticket..

My question is... will they take us to court seen as we have more than 1 ticket? If so... What my argument? Are they even allowed to demand money from me?

Half_way

lydiagough wrote: »

Hi

I have recently moved onto a UKPC controlled housing estate. Most bays are numbered but there a very few that are allocated for visitors.

When I first moved onto the estate we didnt receive permits for our vehicles as we only have a 1 bed flat. We have tried to be smart and avoid parking there in peak times, but when we occasionally need to, we have used the 24hr visitors permits given to us by UKPC.

Me and my partner probably now have around 9 tickets, between us, from them, requesting payments of £120.00 a go (what a rip off). The first few I appealed as we were displaying VALID PERMITS?? that were clearly shown in the images they took of both vehicles too - confused? After receiving a few, I gave up and came on here.

I also recently received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd demanding £160.00 or else? I have read lots of threads but no one seems to have received more than 1 ticket..

My question is... will they take us to court seen as we have more than 1 ticket? If so... What my argument? Are they even allowed to demand money from me?

Please do the following: read your lease/rental and look for any or no mention of parking, Google homeguard vs jopson, ad start a new thread

superdrpanda

Hi all,

I have received a reply from UKPC and now moving onto the POPLA stage. I have found a template on the forum already and I am entirely sure which are the points I can use.

Here is the content of their reply " Your vehicle is parked in an area where no parking is permitted.
Paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, states that we must inform the registered keeper that the driver of a vehicle is required to pay the parking charge in full. It also notes that as we do not know the driver’s name or current postal address, the registered keeper, if they were not the driver at the time, should inform the operator (i.e. us) of the name and current address of the driver and pass the notice to them.
The Act also warns that if, at the end of the period of 28 days (beginning with the day after the Parking Charge is sent), the parking charge has not been paid in full and the operator does not know both the name and current address of the driver, the operator has the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from the registered keeper. This warning is given under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to us complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act (which we consider we do comply with, to the letter).
All of our signage is fully compliant with the guidelines set out within the BPA Code of Practice and we reject the notion that it is in any way unclear or ambiguous.
The contract that UKPC has with the owner or occupier of the land (which authorises UKPC to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of Parking Charges in respect of parking of the vehicle on the land) contains a confidentiality clause and as such we are not in a position to provide the contract to you.
As a member of the Approved Operator Scheme, UKPC are audited by the British Parking Association to ensure that we have all relevant contracts in place. UKPC will provide the court with a copy of this in full if they require it, or can provide a written statement to this effect from those party to the contract. We are also more than happy to provide confirmation to the independent assessors that we are authorised to manage parking at this site.
We can confirm that parking management at this site has been contracted to UK Parking Control Ltd.
UKPC are a member of the DVLA accredited Trade Association and the BPA which provides for a bilateral agreement with the DVLA for the request of information for the purpose of the registered keeper details. This includes obtaining details where there is a deemed contravention occurring and it is necessary to enforce such charges against the registered keeper. It should be emphasised such a role falls within the DVLA’s remit and therefore unlikely to prejudice their role and function in any way. But should you have concerns about this they should be directed to the DVLA or ICO who could provide guidance on this matter.
We appreciate that this is not the outcome you will have hoped for. Unless you have any additional information that you have not already brought to our attention this decision is final."

and I am planning to use

1. A compliant Notice to Keeper was never served - no Keeper Liability can apply.

2. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge

3. ????? (not sure ?) No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

4. ????? (not sure?) The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself

or should I also be mentioning about this too with the case of trespassing if the signage shows parking is forbidden? As I had another look at the signage photo, it said no unauthorised parking at all times, with a no parking symbol underneath but also got active loading and unloading symbol next to it. (there is no loading or unloading bays marked at all).

Thanks for the advice!

Coupon-mad

Yes to all four appeal points but don't rush to submit the POPLA appeal. You have about 30 days to use the POPLA code and you want to time UKPC out from being reminded to serve a NTK.

So make sure it goes in around day 56 from the PCN date and you win, no need to add more.

superdrpanda

Quick question. does point 3 (No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice) still applies in my case? as in their reply, they said 'The contract that UKPC has with the owner or occupier of the land (which authorises UKPC to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of Parking Charges in respect of parking of the vehicle on the land) contains a confidentiality clause and as such we are not in a position to provide the contract to you.'

fisherjim

superdrpanda wrote: »

Quick question. does point 3 (No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice) still applies in my case? as in their reply, they said 'The contract that UKPC has with the owner or occupier of the land (which authorises UKPC to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of Parking Charges in respect of parking of the vehicle on the land) contains a confidentiality clause and as such we are not in a position to provide the contract to you.'

Yes they always say that as they don't want anyone to know what's in it or indeed left out of it!

superdrpanda

hi all,

I just clicked into popla to start my appeal. however, I am not sure which one is to select (why are you appealing your parking charge)? as none of those really applies to me. or should i be selecting ' Other grounds for appeal?Appeals based solely on the following grounds for appeal are less likely to be successful'

thanks.

Redx

select OTHER , put see attached appeal

attach your pdf appeal to their bin icon and submit it

I think this is all explained in the NEWBIES sticky thread, plus its been explained hundreds of times on the forum too

Coupon-mad

superdrpanda wrote: »

hi all,

I just clicked into popla to start my appeal. however, I am not sure which one is to select (why are you appealing your parking charge)? as none of those really applies to me. or should i be selecting ' Other grounds for appeal?Appeals based solely on the following grounds for appeal are less likely to be successful'

thanks.

Why not search the forum for such a phrase first to find all the other times it's already been answered! And this is covered in the NEWBIES thread post #3 already which tells you how to appeal to POPLA and to submit it under 'OTHER' as a PDF.