clarification re NTK

badger2016

This is the "emergency" entrance with, as you can see, NO signage re parking charges.


hxxp://tinypic.com/m/jt536e/4

...which leads to this barrier allowing access to the roof of the multistory outside A&E/Maternity emergencies. There are also NO signs on this entry point either.

hxxp://tinypic.com/m/jt536p/4



(a few yards ahead is an "main" entrance with signs up)
hxxp://i66.tinypic.com/2j5nmnp.jpg

Dotted around the parking area are these signs detailing the charges to park and that a £80 fine can be incurred...
hxxp://tinypic.com/m/jt536s/4
Like this hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/rs8ldh.jpg

The various pay points also have signs up
hxxp://i64.tinypic.com/vy347r.jpg



So in my opinion, the signs don't comply with BPA rules, because the emergency entrance has no signage...
its day 14 & no word from them yet - hopefully they forget the NTK - others I know have had fines here and are just ignoring them... I will submit my appeal day 25 and follow the newbies thread....

Umkomaas

its day 14 & no word from them yet - hopefully they forget the NTK

With a windscreen ticket they cannot access keeper details from the DVLA until after day 28, then they have until day 56 to issue the NtK.

Fruitcake

QUOTE=badger2016This is the "emergency" entrance with, as you can see, NO signage re parking charges.


http://tinypic.com/m/jt536e/4

...which leads to this barrier allowing access to the roof of the multistory outside A&E/Maternity emergencies. There are also NO signs on this entry point either.

http://tinypic.com/m/jt536p/4



(a few yards ahead is an "main" entrance with signs up)
hxxp://i66.tinypic.com/2j5nmnp.jpg

Dotted around the parking area are these signs detailing the charges to park and that a £80 fine can be incurred...
http://tinypic.com/m/jt536s/4

Like this http://i65.tinypic.com/rs8ldh.jpg

The various pay points also have signs up

http://i64.tinypic.com/vy347r.jpg



So in my opinion, the signs don't comply with BPA rules, because the emergency entrance has no signage...
its day 14 & no word from them yet - hopefully they forget the NTK - others I know have had fines here and are just ignoring them... I will submit my appeal day 25 and follow the newbies thread....QUOTE


I've changed the links so they are live now.

The signs are terrible. The £80 charge is tiny, and they are using a prohibited premium rate 'phone number.

You should be telling people you know who have got tickets that they shouldn't be ignoring them. (They are not fines.)

badger2016

Thanks for changing the links
If others have ignored though, and now past day 25, can they still appeal or do they need to just continue to ignore now?
Do I use the template in the newbies thread when I appeal or add to it their signage is non compliant? Thanks

badger2016

0845 number isn't premium rate tho...

Ian011

badger2016 wrote: »

0845 number isn't premium rate tho...

All 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers are premium rate. The premium is the additional Service Charge paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider and which, since 1 July 2015, must be declared wherever one of those numbers is advertised or promoted.

Usage of premium rate 084, 087 and 09 numbers is banned for customer service lines [BIS], financial services [FCA] and public services [Cabinet Office].

Premium rate numbers are used for chargeable services where the caller pays for the service as the call is being made. However, not all premium rate numbers are subject to additional regulation by the Phone-paid Services Authority (PSA), formerly PhonepayPlus.

The Phone-paid Services Authority regulates only Controlled Premium Rate Services (CPRS). These include:
- 087, 09 and 118 numbers where the Service Charge element of the call cost is more than 7p per call or per minute,
- all chatlines, adult-entertainment and internet dialler-operated services irrespective of call or message cost or prefix used,
- numbers where the benefit passed on is more than 10p per call, per minute or per message, e.g. most 070 numbers, some 076 numbers and most five-digit mobile shortcodes.

Premium rate numbers that escape the additional PSA regulation include:
- 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers where the Service Charge element of the call cost is 7p per call or per minute, or less,
- 070 numbers, 076 numbers and mobile shortcodes where the benefit passed on is 10p per call, per minute or per message, or less.

Other numbers (01, 02, 03, 071-075, 077-079, 080, 116) are not premium rate.
01, 02 and 03 numbers are inclusive in allowances else 'geographic rate'.
071-075 and 077-079 numbers are inclusive in allowances else 'mobile rate'.
There are no additional charges and revenue sharing is not permitted.
Numbers starting 080 and 116 are free-to-caller on landlines and mobiles.

badger2016

I have just gone to the Gemini website to paste the appeal letter from the newbie thread
Now I've read the back of the ticket it says appeals are either by email or letter.
They'll aim to respond within 7 days.
If they reject my appeal they'll send me POPLA info
It says "you have 28 days from date of issue to appeal" - so if I wrote to them now (Day 25) they'd not get it.
So I'll email.
And then they'll write back to me.
So I'm ok to put my name and address on this sort of thing long as I do not say I am the driver right?

Thanks in advance

Umkomaas

Yep, make sure you put your name and address, as they require - don't give them the opportunity to say you didn't follow their appeals process - and put it with the template appeal from the newbies sticky (unaltered).

The number of people who withhold their name and address (thinking somehow this is a 'clever' move) and then find themselves stuffed in terms of getting a POPLA code, is legion.

badger2016

okie doke thanks

badger2016

Got this reply after sending the appeal in the newbies link.. they haven't given evidence that they have the landowner's permission to act on their behalf...



Dear Motorist,
Parking Charge Number: xxxxxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxxxxx
Date PCN Issued: xxxxxxxxxx
Location: Broomfield Hospital, Court Road, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 7ET
Contravention: “No Ticket”
POPLA Verification Code: xxxxxxxxxx
A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued to vehicle registration xxxxxxxxxx on xxxxxxxxxx at the
location Broomfield Hospital, Court Road, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 7ET for the contravention “No
Ticket”.
It stipulates within the site terms and conditions that all motorists must pay and clearly and visibly
display a valid ticket within the windscreen of the vehicle at all times in order to comply with the site
regulations.
We have noted your comments about unclear signage, and that the signs were not seen by the driver
and comments about POFA 2012;
With regards to motorist’s comments about genuine pre-estimate of loss, I refer to the judgment of the
Court of Appeal in ParkingEye Limited v Beavis:
Key points:
1 The parking charge (£85, reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days) was considered to be a
deterrent to overstaying, but the intention to deter was not sufficient to invalid the term of
the contract with the driver (or licence – there is some discussion in the judgment that it
might be a licence or a contract). In order to invalidate the contract (or licence) the
parking charge would have to be extravagant and unconscionable and the charge made
in this case was considered to be fine. The Judges did not say what amount of parking
charge would be extravagant and unconscionable (and therefore not enforceable);
2 The parking charge made in this case was not a penalty, and the issue of genuine preestimate
of loss is not relevant;
3 There is no need to graduate the amount of a parking charge after an initial free period of
parking has expired;
4 Local authorities make similar parking charges and there is no reason why the private
parking industry can’t;
5 A parking charge is an acceptable way to encourage turnover in car parks and to prevent
motorists from leaving their cars for extended periods of time;
6 Parliament has supported (via the Protection of Freedoms Act) that such parking charges
could be made so long as they are brought to the attention of the motorists at the time of
use of a car park; and
7 The Court has granted permission to appeal to the Supreme Court, but Mr Beavis may
not wish to do so given that the judgment is so strongly in favour of the parking industry.
However; in order to validate your stay at the above location, a valid ticket must be purchased and
clearly displayed. We find that, by failing to pay and display the valid ticket, you became liable for a
parking charge notice, in accordance with the terms of parking displayed and we are satisfied that this
charge has been issued correctly. Unfortunately, we are not able to take the mitigating comments into
account.
The above location is private property and is managed by Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd on
behalf of the land owner. You have parked within restricted area which is owned by our client. When
parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions of
parking in return for permission to park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or she
abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking.
Gemini Parking Solutions fully complies with the guidelines set by that of the British Parking
Association who are the regulating body for the parking industry. We ensure that photographic
evidence is taken with every PCN that is issued in case of disputes.
We do not feel you have made grounds for cancelling the Parking Charge Notice as you did not abide
by the site regulations which are clearly visible on the warning signs throughout the car park. You
were parked outside of the set terms and conditions of the site and as a result your appeal was
unsuccessful as your representations did not make sufficient grounds.
The payment for £80 is now due as you have exceeded the 14 day period. Failure to pay the amount
will result in further costs being incurred and may also result in Gemini Parking Solutions Ltd
Instructing a Debt Collection agency to collect any sum due.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. Should you wish to make a second
appeal, this can be made to POPLA on https://www.popla.co.uk that provides an independent appeals
service. All representations to POPLA will need to be received within 28 days from the date of this
letter. Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your
favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £80.00. By law we are also required to inform you
that Ombudsman Services (https://www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute
resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen
to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then
you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.’
Yours faithfully,
Appeals Centre
How To Pay
Make Payment By Post.Please complete the
Payment Slip below.
Call our 24 hour telephone payment
line: 0845 6789 620
PAYMENT SLIP
PCN Reference: xxxxxxxxxx Vehicle Registration Number: xxxxxxxxxx
Please make Cheques / Postal Orders payable to: Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd
Send Cheques / Postal Orders to: Payments Department. PO Box 2525, Buckhurst Hill, Essex. IG8 1HR.
I enclose a Cheque/Postal Order to the value of: £ (Amount Due: £80.00)
Please write your Name, Address and Parking Charge Notice Number (PCN) on the rear of all cheques and postal
orders.
Please note the following: When making payment by post we recommend using the Royal Mail’s ‘Recorded –
Signed For’ or ‘Special Delivery’ services. Cash should not be sent through the post.