Car illegally seized against PCN, legal option?

Humminghorse23

Hi there,

Was prompted to post on this forum, hope y'all can advise..
This is complex, but I´ll try to keep it succinct.
I received a number of PCN's from Brighton and Hove City Council. All whilst working in one particular street. I do not dispute the PCN's themselves, I know thats a lost cause. However..
The PCN's were passed very quickly on to Excel Enforcement. An enforcement agency based in wales. (why they use an enforcement company based in essentially a different country is beyond me) So I received repeated visits from Welsh Bailiffs demanding money for one of the PCN's (which had by this point exponentially increased, from £105 to over £500)
Now I was unable to pay it and knew my rights to a certain extent in dealing with Bailiffs.
But because its connected to a vehicle, they can essentially find, clamp and seize that vehicle to cover the debt. Wherever it is..
Now I tried and tried to contact the council themselves to organise either a payment schedule, or to consolidate the PCN's but they are uncontactable. They explicitly state that they will not discuss PCNs by phone or in person. They're only response to letters are standard responses, and will never address a specific issue.
So they came, they clamped. and called for the truck to take my vehicle away.
-I immediately contacted a debt advice solicitor and he instructed me to make a sworn declaration that the vehicle did not in fact belong to me, but to my partner. (handing over ownership, different from registered keeper-this may have been a mistake, but in either case the seizure was still illegal...)
So this was immediately done. (in front of a local solicitor, all whilst the Bailiff waited for the truck)
This was duly ignored by the bailiff on instruction of his boss
-I called the police to declare my car was being illegally seized
They came, and very nicely said they couldn't get involved in a civil matter (but filmed everything)
-I also discovered that legally, if an item essential to your employment is worth no more than £1350 they cannot legally seize it.
They assumed it was worth more and took it anyway.

In the end, after unsuccessful wrangling between the lacklustre debt advice solicitor, the enforcement agent and Brighton and Hove city council, my car was sold at auction, for £1100. to cover a single parking ticket. they are supposed to reimburse you any extra money made, but the total cost, bailiffs charges, collection charges, auctioneers charges, storage fees etc came to the STAGGERINGLY COINCIDENTAL sum of £1104. They didn't bill me the £4 bless them..

NB: the sale price at auction was higher than I would have expected. But I still believe the value of the car to be less than the 1350 threshold. (high mileage, tatty looking, and provable)

I happened to research the market value of the vehicle, and it was £1200 in good mechanical and cosmetic condition. It was not in good cosmetic condition, and theres a pretty comprehensive inspection report of the vehicle filed away at eastbourne vehicle auctions which would prove this to be the case. Essentially the point is, it was definitely not worth more than £1350.

So as to whether it was essential to my employment as a self employed carpenter: Since its sale my income has dramatically fallen, and provably so. To the extent that I am now applying for personal insolvency and unable to keep up with other payments. My Credit rating is and will plummet, and I cannot afford to buy a replacement vehicle.. Essentially I´m stuffed.

Never mind the other 12 parking tickets, which they refused to consolidate. This was as a result of one.
I am a separated father of two kids, I have 50% responsibility for them. I receive no benefits or tax credits, and my girlfriend has zero income and suffers from anxiety.

I would like to take the council to court for illegal seizure of the vehicle, reimburse me its full market value and compensate me for 6 months of lost earnings. Then arrange for any outstanding PCN's to be written off, or at the very least, returned to their original sum, consolidated, and a suitable payment arrangement to be made, directly to the authority.

I am intelligent enough to follow this through via small claims, and have little left to lose. But would be in schtuck if I lose. so in your opinions, do I have a case?

Thanks!

sourcrates

Hi,

You might get more responses posting in the parking tickets forum :

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

FBaby

I would like to take the council to court for illegal seizure of the vehicle, reimburse me its full market value and compensate me for 6 months of lost earnings. Then arrange for any outstanding PCN's to be written off, or at the very least, returned to their original sum, consolidated, and a suitable payment arrangement to be made, directly to the authority.

I can understand the rationale behind expecting the value of the car if indeed it can be proven to have been illegally seezed, but to expect 6 months pay without any evidence that your loss of job is purely do to not having a car I think is really pushing it a bit far. As for expecting the other PCN to be written off, that's having a laugh. Why do you think you don't owe these?

gycraig_2

Sadly "it's not mine it's my partners" isn't a valid defence when they come knocking.

Also 1350 seems a bit of a random number to put a limit at

sourcrates

gycraig wrote: »

Sadly "it's not mine it's my partners" isn't a valid defence when they come knocking.t

It is if he has a receipt to back up his claim !!

fatbelly

gycraig wrote: »

Also 1350 seems a bit of a random number to put a limit at

It's the figure in the legislation

Karonher

I am not sure just knocking up a receipt will work. Quite a few places have tried claiming not to own vehicles when it comes to programmes such as The Sheriffs are Coming and they never get away with it.

Also, I get the impression that this all happened a while ago so suddenly coming up with a receipt will look more than a little suspicious.

Some people would do that with everything if it was that simple.

[Deleted User]

I would be very surprised if the OP succeeds in this case.

Perhaps a good start is to consider some historical cases, there have been plenty and there are a number of forums dedicated to this, not limited to MSE.

I would suggest the OP should remember that the LA and Enforcement Agency have the funds to defend such a claim and will do, for nothing more than to prove a point or entertain the officer in charge.

MrsTinks

All things aside in how you got THAT many fines etc then I'm not sure if you might be on shaky ground on the car for a few reasons:
- you transferred ownership after it was levied against. In essence it was possibly no longer yours to transfer to your partner.
- Glasses guide price is a guide, ultimately if the price at auction was £1100 then the car would typically be worth more than this. I've been a to a few auctions and unless you're selling a super desirable car then you will typically get a lot less for your car than it's worth - thus they might reasonably argue the car value was more than the set limit and it performed as expected in an auction. I wouldn't stake your entire claim on this one personally.

As for your lost income - good luck. I doubt you will get anywhere with this. I also suspect that any potential judge in small claims might be less than impressed with the other 12 tickets you got...

The charges amounting to £1104 is however absolutely believable. Your fine was up to £500, towing it would have been probably £150 to £200. Storage before auction another £100-£200. Auction fees are probably at least £200 (sellers premium % etc) and the fees for the bailiff attending and levying your vehicle. £1104 seems about right given the sales value of the vehicle.

If I were you I would honestly look at what you can do to dispute the PCNs if you think they were unfair - 13 seem excessive! Did you keep parking after you got the first... well... 12???

Karonher

All things aside in how you got THAT many fines etc then I'm not sure if you might be on shaky ground on the car for a few reasons:

I have spent time in Brighton for conferences and it can be upwards of £11 a day for parking. It could well be that the OP took the risk that some days they would get away with parking and the odd ticket would be manageable.

MrsTinks

Karonher wrote: »

All things aside in how you got THAT many fines etc then I'm not sure if you might be on shaky ground on the car for a few reasons:

I have spent time in Brighton for conferences and it can be upwards of £11 a day for parking. It could well be that the OP took the risk that some days they would get away with parking and the odd ticket would be manageable.

The odd ticket... but you would have thought after one or two that just maaaaaybe it wouldn't be a good idea to carry on? I think that might have stopped being sensible somewhere around 3 or 4? 13 seems... well... high? :cool:

I've spent time in a lot of places - £11 per pay parking isn't the worst I've come across (not saying it's reasonable!) - but whilst I might agree it's worth risking ONE ticket - then I think 13 either says "I don't care - do your worst!" or it suggests that something in the process was amiss? If the latter than there is potentially grounds for appeal. If the former then probably my sympathy is a little diminished?