Help with PIP Face to Face assesment

Bogalot

Glen_Clark wrote: »

Well yes but the Capita DA caught in the Channel 4 secret camera did not seem concerned with morals or ethics. His only concern seemed to be maximising the number of assesments he did because he was was 'on piecework' - paid for each asessment. So I don't know why he didn't just pass everybody so he could do 100 assessments a day with no appeals. There must be some incentive to fail people I haven't heard about.

A friend works for Maximus and she does it because she was so disillusioned with the NHS. She is allocated her appointments for the day (she doesn't decide how many to do) and her only target is to get through them. Her reports are randomly quality checked but she has never been asked to change anything. She has no incentive to fail people, just to assess them against the (narrow) criteria.

NeilCr

Glen_Clark wrote: »

Well yes but the Capita DA caught in the Channel 4 secret camera did not seem concerned with morals or ethics. His only concern seemed to be maximising the number of assesments he did because he was was 'on piecework' - paid for each asessment. So I don't know why he didn't just pass everybody so he could do 100 assessments a day with no appeals. There must be some incentive to fail people I haven't heard about.

I'd have thought the incentive was keeping their job. As was said earlier some people will fail and anyone passing 100% of claimants will stand out like a sore thumb.

Interesting what Bogalot says. An acquaintance of mine is thoroughly unhappy in her current NHS job and is considering going down the assessor route. She has friends who do it and their experiences mirror those of Bogalot's friend. It's about assessing against criteria not passing or failing people.

Mojisola

Bogalot wrote: »

She has no incentive to fail people, just to assess them against the (narrow) criteria.

NeilCr wrote: »

It's about assessing against criteria not passing or failing people.

So why are so many reports full of mistakes and lies which result in claimants being refused benefits?

NeilCr

Mojisola wrote: »

So why are so many reports full of mistakes and lies which result in claimants being refused benefits?

Well not sure there are so many. As I've said before the bad cases tend to be the ones that we hear about publically

As we said the job is assessing against criteria. Like most jobs many will do it well - some not so well and a few will do it badly. And mistakes will happen I'm afraid

I'd be the last one to say the system is working brilliantly - the stats on successful appeals show that - and the mistakes /oversights can have awful effects on the claimants involved. But, personally, I don't believe the vast majority of assessors are deliberately failing/passing people.

Mojisola

NeilCr wrote: »

Well not sure there are so many. As I've said before the bad cases tend to be the ones that we hear about publically

As we said the job is assessing against criteria. Like most jobs many will do it well - some not so well and a few will do it badly. And mistakes will happen I'm afraid

I'd be the last one to say the system is working brilliantly - the stats on successful appeals show that - and the mistakes /oversights can have awful effects on the claimants involved. But, personally, I don't believe the vast majority of assessors are deliberately failing/passing people.

Out of three assessments that my son had, two reports were full of lies and mistakes. The third one was recorded and was reasonably accurate.

From the number of bad assessments that are reported to groups that I belong to, it isn't such a rare thing at all.

If the assessors have nothing to gain from putting in reports that lead to benefits being refused, then the recruitment and interview methods need to be reviewed because there are some useless people being given the job.

NeilCr

Mojisola wrote: »

Out of three assessments that my son had, two reports were full of lies and mistakes. The third one was recorded and was reasonably accurate.

From the number of bad assessments that are reported to groups that I belong to, it isn't such a rare thing at all.

If the assessors have nothing to gain from putting in reports that lead to benefits being refused, then the recruitment and interview methods need to be reviewed because there are some useless people being given the job.

I don't in any way disagree with the fact that there are bad assessments. I do think people tend to post/speak about the bad experiences but not the good ones. And, yes, it is hugely important to get recruitment right. Part of me thinks that they can't get enough assessors - with all the knock ons that provides

i'd be interested to hear of anything that points to assessors gaining from putting in reports that lead to benefits being refused.

There is clearly something wrong with the system because of the percentage of appeals that are successful (Benefits and Work suggests 63%). Personally, I think the MRs add nothing (they generally support the original decision) and (deliberately or not deliberately) deter people from going through the appeals process

caprichos

We have finally received the award and I can tell you that it has not come our way.
My husband was awarded enhance rate for living which we were expecting, but standard rate for mobility.
He was scored 10 points for being able to stand or walk more than 20m but less than 50. This is not correct as we did say he could maybe walk for a minute, maybe take 10 steps or sometime nothing at all. We also said that his walking deteriorated throughout the day.

For being able to plan a follow a route he was score 0 as they said he could do this. Now here is were our biggest problem was because the nurse that interviewed my husband asked him if he could do this to familiar places like the shops round the corner. we said yes but he could not do it on his own as it is not safe for him to go on his own and sudden noises make him anxious.. we also said that he could not do it to unfamiliar places. So how does this score him 0?

this is from the PIP:
"MOBILITY ACTIVITIES

1. Planning and following journeys.
a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
c. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points."


it also says he was able to walk 25 meters in the consultation room with his walking stick and unsteady. He had to stop twice!!

what is our next step?

NeilCr

caprichos wrote: »

We have finally received the award and I can tell you that it has not come our way.
My husband was awarded enhance rate for living which we were expecting, but standard rate for mobility.
He was scored 10 points for being able to stand or walk more than 20m but less than 50. This is not correct as we did say he could maybe walk for a minute, maybe take 10 steps or sometime nothing at all. We also said that his walking deteriorated throughout the day.

For being able to plan a follow a route he was score 0 as they said he could do this. Now here is were our biggest problem was because the nurse that interviewed my husband asked him if he could do this to familiar places like the shops round the corner. we said yes but he could not do it on his own as it is not safe for him to go on his own and sudden noises make him anxious.. we also said that he could not do it to unfamiliar places. So how does this score him 0?

this is from the PIP:
"MOBILITY ACTIVITIES

1. Planning and following journeys.
a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
c. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points."


it also says he was able to walk 25 meters in the consultation room with his walking stick and unsteady. He had to stop twice!!

what is our next step?

Mandatory Reconsideration

Information here

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

Be aware of the time limit. Four weeks from the date of the letter notifying your husband of the award

Good luck with it. May be worth getting some help?

caprichos

Thank you. we will need to get help. Do you know who could help with this?

NeilCr

caprichos wrote: »

Thank you. we will need to get help. Do you know who could help with this?

Your local CAB or advice centre are possibilities.