LED light bulbs

almillar

It seems that you and elsetimpo's contention is that 'cheap LEDs are rubbish, expensive LEDs are high quality'

No - rewind a bit. This started with Martyn's contention that you can replace all lights in the home with 'great' £1.50 bulbs. I argued that that would not be a like-for-like replacement, and that you need to check the specs (not the price) of the bulb. I asked for an example of thede £1.50 bulbs, but that has still not been provided, for us to check the specs. elstimpo has been concentrating on the price more. He buys and sells LEDs so is better qualified than me, and I would suggest, Martyn, to comment on the viability of a high quality £1.50 LED.

How was this tested for expensive lights? Cycles of on/off? etc

Again, I contend that on cheaper ones, they're simply made up, using a higher number than a competitor. I don't like them, regardless of price.


Martyn:

That's your opinion, but they exist, and others have said they work fine.

I bought 5 B22 9W's for £7 before Xmas.

I never said they didn't work. So I'll try to get some blood out of a stone - how many lumens do your 9W LEDs put out? From Home Bargains or B&Q?

I have listed this repeatedly, B&Q, Screwfix and after mentioning HB's

Why can't you understand I don't want you to repeat a list of shops. I want the product. The £1.50 miracle bulb. I've already said the ones in HB are junk, and the ones in B&Q aren't £1.50, so that leaves Screwfix. They have a website, why not point me to a PRODUCT that supports your claim?

That heat byproduct is about 90% of the cost, and enormous waste, hence the need to switch asap to low energy bulbs.

100% agree.

you two came along and informed me that my lights don't work ..... thanks?

Did not say that. Never said your lights were faulty. You say you want efficiency, but you're willing to buy the less efficient product because it's a bit cheaper <pending any ACTUAL DATA from you> - are you trying to save the planet or just your wallet - you think you're doing both, I just think you can do better. Let's have a look at the products, discuss their relative merits, and then readers can make their own choices. All we've got so far is you shouting to people to fill their baskets at HB, and me shouting not to. That's not helpful from either side.

I'll bet your house is now less bright than it was before

You keep betting (making up stuff). I'm perfectly happy with my lights and lighting levels, I've never settled on too dark (nor too bright).

You're happy with your lighting. Good. Now, read what I said again - I bet it's darker. Maybe you're still happy, but I bet it's darker. What bulb went out, what bulb went in. That's all you need to look at.

If the difference doesn't exist, or can't be appreciated, then the cheaper bulbs are better value for money.

OK, I'll give you an extreme example - what if 2x cost LED put out 2X the light, instead of 2 cheaper ones, you could use 1 more expensive one. THAT is better value for money, instead of cheaper.

I'm still quids in. But I would recommend you keep them since you are investing so very much more than I, and it clearly means more to you.

You don't know how much I spend on LEDs. You can assume it's more than £1.50 of course! My point, again, is about SPECS not PRICE. I buy primarily on light output.

perhaps you could supply links to the ones you would recommend

Haha! I've asked you at least 3 times for links to the ones you bought, or recommend, or similar, so you first.

a whole argument on the fact that expensive LED's give off better light, whilst simultaneously arguing with those of us that seem unable to appreciate any difference

I'm warning those who can tell the difference, or who want to do a little bit of research, that they need to check their current lighting, and try to replace with like-for-like replacements. You advise EVERYONE to blindly (har har) walk in to HB and spend £20 and it'll all be fine. It worked for you, great. It works for others, great. But what if someone comes back to this thread that followed your advise saying their room is nowhere near as bright and all blue because they've just replaced a 100 halogen with a £1.50 LED? This is a forum, there could be plenty of people reading. You've given dodgy advice and I'm correcting you.

jrfarrim

Got to agree that cheap bulbs aren't up to scratch from a 'light' perspective. My house is full of MR16 spots, all the cheap MR16 LED bulbs normally give in the region of 200-250 lumens, for me that is no where near bright enough. I've learnt not to bother with anything below 450 lumens as I'll just be disappointed by the light output.

elstimpo

lstar337 wrote: »

You made it personal when you decided to be purposefully critical of the light I chose for my lounge (I didn't ask your opinion btw), slyly implying that I made a 'pointless' and therefore idiotic choice. Whether you find it fun or not is beside the point, plenty of people do which is why products like Lifx and Philips Hue exist. Personally, I like being able to change from warm white through to cool white depending on what activity I am doing in the lounge. Also, my AS daughter also finds the colours calming on days where she is suffering more than usual from sensory overload.

If I surveyed 100 people on a typical street, I doubt I would find 5 who could tell me what CRI stood for! A lot in your mind must be a whole different number to a lot in mine. All I have said in my posts is that most of the public don't know or don't care what CRI is. I never said it wasn't important, just that the average home likely doesn't find it as important as you do.

You don't need to get all bent out of shape about it, there are plenty of things that I am passionate about that most of the population couldn't give two hoots about.

You don't need to know the industry or fancy initialisms, you just need to know the public. I can tell you for a fact that a huge portion of the population have bigger things to worry about than whether the curtains in their lounge are showing the correct shade of red when the light is turned on.

I agree. However, since this is a money saving website, I am compelled to point out the number of cheap lamps that can be purchased for the cost of a better quality bulb means that the overall lifespan is probably greater at the end of the day.

No i didn't, i told you i've never understood why anyone wants colour changing lamps in their home. Am i not allowed an opinion?

You have read far too much into that i'm afraid. Three years ago i purposely didn't stock a colour changing RGB strip light because i didn't see the point of having strip light that changes colour. Was that a personal attack on your too?

I can tell you one thing, more people care about CRI than they do colour changing lamps. I don't know how you conduct your surveys or statistics but we will sell over £500k of high CRI lighting this year and we think it could double the year after. To me that shows there are an awful lot of people who care about CRI and as a company we aren't even known to the majority of the people who do care about CRI.

You can tell me 'for a fact', really? How is this fact determined?

If CRI was important then Soraa wouldn't exist as a company.

Again i completely disagree with you. Cheap LEDs are a false economy and will end up costing more time and money than spending more money on a high quality products from the start. Plus, you get a lower quality of light.

elstimpo

NigeWick wrote: »

And your verifiable evidence for this is?

So far I have never had a CFL or LED fail on me. Our first CFL was bought over 21 years ago and I handed it on to one of our daughters when I switched to LEDs in order to reduce electricity usage even further.

Having worked in LED industry for around 13 years as a sourcing agent / manufacturer / designer / retailer.

We have a technical centre that is dedicated to the testing and developing of LED lamps in particular power supplies, the thing that will go first.

elstimpo

Cardew wrote: »

The problem many of us have is determining which LED lamps are high quality.

I had the same problem when CFL lamps were introduced. I bought Osram lamps which were - I thought - high quality; they weren't!

It's a big problem. I've worked with the Energy Saving Trust to try and help on this but funding is an issue. The EU funded a project called premium light where LED manufacturers volunteered their products for independent testing in France and the results were published and those that performed well were given an accreditation. But that was short lived due to funding.

There is now Verified by the Lighting Industry Association in conjunction with the Energy Saving Trust, but it's prohibitively expensive and up take has been minimal.

Really you just need to read small prints on warranties as a trick manufacturers use is to warrant the LED Chip, not the entire lamp. Power supplies will fail well before LED Chip so its a way of getting of honouring warranties !

elstimpo

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I don't think that, so thanks for making my point, I'll carry on happily with my cheap and extremely agreeable LED's, since I can get about 3 for a fiver, and according to you (not me) the expensive ones will cost even more, for longer, each.

So even if you are right and the cheaper ones don't last as long, they will certainly work out better value for money than those at 4x the cost, or whatever it is you recommend.

But, back to the point of the thread. And the many comments at the start, cheap LED's, that most of us are too stupid to realise don't work, and mistakenly think they are fine, are now available almost everywhere - so folk can upgrade their lighting as and when CFL's fail, or replace those incandescents if they stuck with them, and save loads of money on their leccy bills, and reduce their energy consumption.

I won't describe your product as a rip off, as I know folk who have a better appreciation than I on things such as TV's and sound system's and do get value out of the £1,000's they spend. But I can't really see nor hear it. So long as the colour of each Tellytubby is correct and I can hear them well enough to sing along, I'm a happy little bunny, and the extra money/quality would be wasted.

Oh, one last thing, perhaps we also have a difference of opinion on outdoor Halogens, but I have LED floodlights in the garden, 10W each, v's the 100-300W monsters other folk have to keep their gardens warm. Hopefully their quality, and cheapness at around £12 is ok.

I'm not sure you understand that i'm stating that i am aware most people don't care about CRI / Power supply quality. I have also stated that there is nothing wrong with buying cheap LEDs, it's a personal choice based on many things.

At the same time i'm allowed to give my opinion on things i have quite a lot of experience of.

Martyn1981

elstimpo wrote: »

I'm not sure you understand that i'm stating that i am aware most people don't care about CRI / Power supply quality. I have also stated that there is nothing wrong with buying cheap LEDs, it's a personal choice based on many things.

At the same time i'm allowed to give my opinion on things i have quite a lot of experience of.

Great, so we both agree that most people don't care, and I'm one of them.

So, in my personal opinion, of which I'm allowed to have too (yes?) then LED's are great, and are available really cheap now.

So folk can spend lots of money on them if they wish, and if they appreciate the difference, or they can spend very little money if they are happy to do that.

Are we cool? :cool2:

gefnew

Hi All
just a bit of fun but the description of bulbs is incorrect, they are what you put in the ground and flowers pop up.
They should be called lamps as you fit them into lamp holders.
the quality of the light is with the beholder.
gefnew

Cardew

These must be rubbish?

https://www.aldi.co.uk/led-gu10-bulbs-10-pack/p/074572099953400

10 for £8.99

• Product Description
  
• Delivery & Returns
  

When one bulb blows, another is usually not far behind – particularly with the popularity of multi-bulb lighting systems in today’s homes. With this pack of 10 bright LED bulbs, you’ll never be without left in the dark again. These GU10 twist fitting bulbs cast a bright, warm white light that suits any application – from garage to living room. At 5W (50W incandescent equivalent), these bulbs strike a great balance between economic power consumption and powerful light output. What’s more, they produce light at remarkably low running temperatures, so there’s no worrying about discolouring light fittings or getting burnt when you change them.
Features
360 Lumen

Settings
Non-Dimmable

• Brand: Lightway
• Colour: Warm White
• Energy Efficiency: A+
• Pack Size: 10-Pack
• Product Type: Lighting
• Voltage: 240V
• Wattage: 5W = 50W

Cardew

Originally Posted by Cardew
The problem many of us have is determining which LED lamps are high quality.

I had the same problem when CFL lamps were introduced. I bought Osram lamps which were - I thought - high quality; they weren't!

elstimpo wrote: »

It's a big problem. I've worked with the Energy Saving Trust to try and help on this but funding is an issue. The EU funded a project called premium light where LED manufacturers volunteered their products for independent testing in France and the results were published and those that performed well were given an accreditation. But that was short lived due to funding.

There is now Verified by the Lighting Industry Association in conjunction with the Energy Saving Trust, but it's prohibitively expensive and up take has been minimal.

Really you just need to read small prints on warranties as a trick manufacturers use is to warrant the LED Chip, not the entire lamp. Power supplies will fail well before LED Chip so its a way of getting of honouring warranties !

Assuming the light quality is satisfactory and as described e.g the Aldi GU10 warm white 5w 360 lumen LED from Aldi at 90 pence each(as shown in post above), Then it comes down to testing life expectancy. 10,000 hours is approx 14 months left on 24/7. However realistic testing must surely include on/off cycles allowing bulb to cool etc. Thus even for 10,000 hours it would take years.

I am not trying to be controversial - indeed as Martyn1981 will confirm it is not my style! - but surely most of us would elect to pay 90p and take a chance? Especially as Aldi have a good reputation.