LED light bulbs

elstimpo

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Yep, you're definitely posting in a manner which suggests being full of BS and here's the substance ....

1. Continually partially quoting text without relating it to full context.
2. Continually quoting without reference to poster or source.
3. Continually quoting and conflating posters & sources

... it's illogical, it's nonsensical and in many/most cases it's utter BS - it's not clever and it doesn't make much sense (other than to suggest an industry insider in self protect mode, which we sincerely hope is not the case but expect denial even if it is) ...

Your entire argument over many pages seemingly stands on the foundation that in the case of LED bulbs expensive is better than cheap due to better light intensity & colour and although multiple posters have countered this position, instead of conducting the most basic research possible (eg search ... 5 pack BC lightbulbs 5crewfix) you'd rather conduct a lengthy argument over numerous days employing an extremely juvenile approach ... obviously there's more intent to cause mischief or chase technical acclaim than participate in discussion, therefore your posts simply become meaningless as your credibility (technical & otherwise) spirals down the drain.

I do note a hint of back-peddling now the penny's dropped that this section of the forum is actually populated by some with more than a little knowledge & maybe even decades of experience in various energy saving technologies, so maybe it's time to pull on the brakes, have a rethink of what currently seems to an outsider to be an unnecessarily 'aggressive' approach, swallow some pride and introduce yourself into the community in what would be considered a more civilised manner ... you never know, instead of just preaching the approach could include listening and the outcome may even lead to learning something new ....

HTH
Z

I've NEVER argued that expensive LED Lamps are better because of light intensity and colour. Can you please explain?

There is absolutely no back peddling what so ever. Please state where i am 'back peddling'?

I find your post to be full of utterly false information and accusations. It's also down right rude and pretty aggressive.

zeupater

elstimpo wrote: »

I've NEVER argued that expensive LED Lamps are better because of light intensity and colour. Can you please explain?

There is absolutely no back peddling what so ever. Please state where i am 'back peddling'?

I find your post to be full of utterly false information and accusations. It's also down right rude and pretty aggressive.

Hi

Don't you really think that to an outsider it looks really odd that the point is being argued in such a manner? ... is it not also the case that a self confessed industry insider with the kind of credentials stated previously wouldn't know their own marketplace, competitors, customers and competitive products & technologies to such a degree that when what is likely the highest volume national shifter of LED lighting in combination with a particular product line description is mentioned the actual product and it's specification wouldn't almost immediately come to mind ? ....

Of course your argument is based on intensity & colour as logic would state that low intensity & poor colour either wouldn't result in a high CRI or couldn't deliver the qualitative benefits which a high CRI is claimed to deliver.

What really needs to be realised is that a high CRI 11W/810 lumen LED lightbulb with a 25000Hr life expectancy costing £12.98 will cost 52p/1000Hrs (12.98/25) and deliver the same amount of light into a dark room as a 9W/806 lumen LED lightbulb with a 15000Hr LE purchased in packs of 5 for £10 which cost 13p/1000Hrs (2/15) ..... of course, the higher efficiency of the cheaper bulbs also needs to be accounted for, so that's simple ... 11kWh/1000Hrs (~£1.32) vs 9kWh/1000Hrs (~£1.08). Above that, around 810 lumen in a standard room fitting will deliver light which may be good enough to see by (~50lux ?), but you're certainly not going to be able to distinguish colours as well as in bright daylight (10000lux+) anyway, so unless there's literally hundreds of domestic lightbulbs in the equation then it's doubtful that anyone would really be able to tell the difference between standard LED and high CRI bulbs anyway ...

Of course, you'll 'know' different ... but looking at the logic employed and the numbers falling out of some pretty solid calculations, you're probably not doing your business prospects much good here ...

HTH
Z

Exiled_Tyke

Well as an outsider to this discussion (until now) I know which side of the argument I'm going with. I'm also aware of all the contributors to this particular discussion those who have been the most useful, helpful contributors to these boards over the years (and have certainly provided me with very practical help). You know who you are!

Martyn1981

elstimpo wrote: »

I stated my qualifications to qualfiying my opinion and position.

What qualifications are needed?

I buy a lamp, I'm happy with the lamp, and it's extremely good value. Job done.

Your qualifications are of no importance whatsoever within the context of the thread and discussions prior to you joining.

Once again, why can't I have an opinion on a car, without being a formula 1 driver?

Do you attack everyone that gives a product review online on the basis that they are not qualified enough to have an opinion on whether they are happy or not with a product?

I haven't responded to your list of responses as I found them to be nonsense. You even continued your argument about £5 lamps despite it never having any link to what I was saying.

If you want value for money try this:-

I pay £1.50 to £2.00 for a lamp today and am perfectly happy. It dies after 10yrs (failing to meet a suggested 15yr promise), then I buy a high quality one for £3 (£2 in today's money), which lasts 15yrs. I'm in the hole for £4 or less and get 25yrs, whilst you pay £6 or so today for the 15yr bulb I buy in 2027. Who's the mug?

Once again, can I suggest you re-read the thread, you are simply maintaining an argument that nobody else (apart from almillar) is involved in.

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

... whilst you pay £6 or so today for the 15yr bulb I buy in 2027. Who's the mug? ....

Hi Mart

The issue is that they're not a mere £6 each, it seems they're currently £12.98 each delivered for free if the order value is above £20 .... :eek:

I have no doubt that the science and engineering behind high CRI LED lightbulbs is sound and would lead to a better quality light in the correct conditions, the problem is what they're likely to deliver in a nominal domestic environment at normal room lighting levels of around 50lux would almost certainly be indistinguishable from much cheaper standard units delivering a similar colour temperature, after-all most of us live in a house not a photographers studio ...

:idea: ... explains it all really !!
Z

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi Mart

The issue is that they're not a mere £6 each, it seems they're currently £12.98 each delivered for free if the order value is above £20 .... :eek:

Wow! I went for £6 to be as fair as possible and get close to the £5 mentioned, since 'the experts' won't give any examples.

I'm sure that some people will appreciate the £13 lamps, and get value from them. TBH I'd have thought of you as someone who might notice, appreciate, or at least be aware of the quality difference, but if it doesn't bother you, then good enough for me!

Fun fact ...... @elstimpo was interested in my quote. Not sure if this will ring a bell with you, but about 5yrs ago you will recall me standing my ground against the anti-PV pair. Well, at some point qualifications started to be quoted to justify why PV wouldn't help the grid (or some such carp).

Then a discussion popped up on another forum, with several guys I'd been chatting with for a year or so. They'd read the discussion on MSE and were having a laugh about it. They told me to ignore the false info, and gave me that quote and only then did I find out that they were all engineers, two electrical engineers and two nuclear (one fission, and one fussion), but because their explanations were always so good and well structured they didn't require artificial support from quoted qualifications.

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

.... TBH I'd have thought of you as someone who might notice, appreciate, or at least be aware of the quality difference, but if it doesn't bother you, then good enough for me! ...

Hi

Probably more down to MrsZ than anything else, we've even changed a number of LED B22s over to the clear 'filament' LEDs because she convinced me that they'd look better in the clear glass 'shades' in the hall/landing .... she was right too, they look really good and actually provide a better light where they are! - oddly enough, she even likes to mix GU10 temperature colours in the kitchen depending on area/usage and what's being highlighted - certainly sounds different, but the effect is decent.

As long as I can see where I'm going and what I'm doing in most of the house and am able to read at lux levels sufficient to not strain my eyes where I usually need to read then I'm pretty happy with lighting levels and I guess that most others would take the same approach ... beyond that I really can't follow the logic of increasing expenditure to improve light quality unless there's a technical reason for doing so.

HTH
Z

EricMears

I too have replaced tungsten bulbs with CFLs and then (a few years later) cheap LEDs. Of course each one is a little less bright than its predecessor but one doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that a few extra low wattage lamps will more than make up for the loss of intensity but still give a massive drop in consumption.

Some of my first LEDs were pretty rubbish - but still saved more in running costs than their purchase price - later ones are lasting better. I'd hate to say that any of them will last for 30+ years (mainly because I have my doubts that I'll still be around to report on them here).

My only interest in this topic is in waiting to see when the penny will drop that there's a lot of 'trolling' going on

silverwhistle

zeupater wrote: »

The issue is that they're not a mere £6 each, it seems they're currently £12.98 each delivered for free if the order value is above £20 .... :eek: Z

Bloomin' 'eck! You have been doing your research. :-)

In the case of elstimpo and the other guy, the phrase that occurred to me was 'The lady doth protest too much'.

I'm very happy with my LEDs and 'cos I'm poor and far from posh I even have a replacement LED for the previous fluorescent tube in my kitchen (along with a few under cabinet LEDs for middle class street cred..).

I have been resenting the patronising tone of some of the posts as I have been aware of lumens and cost for some time. Fortunately, as I'm female I'm used to being patronised by blokes. CRI was new to me; probably due to the lack of specific need and the adequacy of the LEDs I do possess - all purchased with a mind to cost.

Still, I've done an audit on my remaining CFLs and have decided on a screwfix raid soon as prices have come down enough for lesser used fittings. Even the one in my shed, where I'll benefit from a decent light as I try to sharpen my chainsaw chain..

Cardew

Yesterday in Screwfix I bought a pack of 5 of these for £9.99:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-gls-led-lamps-white-bc-9w-5-pack/8621j#product_additional_details_container

Specification
Brand LAP Cap Fitting BC Colour White Colour Temperature Description Cool White Colour Temperature Value 4000 K Dimmable Non-Dimmable Energy Rating A+ Equivalent Wattage 60 W Lamp Technology LED Lamp Type GLS Life Length 15,000 hours Lm 806 lm Manufacturer Guarantee 2 Year Manufacturer's Guarantee (T&Cs Apply) Pack Size 5 Pieces in Pack/Case 5 Power Output (Watts/Kw) 9 W Product Diameter 60 mm Product Length 113 mm Product Type LED Lamps Shape Standard Dia. x L: 60 x 113mm. 4000K. 806Lm. Lumens per watt: 89.5. 9kWh/1000h.

Screwfix produce a helpful booklet listing all their LEDs - many Phillips. Much of this information is here:

http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/light-bulbs/cat8350001

What did strike me is the huge disparity in prices between the same type of bulb - especially if you want them to be dimmable.