Rented house question

CathA

Hi all, a question for the experts please?

My daughter and her now ex rented a house. My daughter moved out a while ago, the ex stayed in the house until the end of tenancy date (notice all served correctly and agreed by all parties). The end date was yesterday, Sunday 18th December. As it fell on a weekend, check out day was today, again all agreed by all parties.

The letting agent spoke to the ex and he told her he would be moving out on 17/18th. The letting agent arranged some time previously to get their team of cleaners in to clean the house (as my daughter has a dog it was agreed that they house had to be professionally cleaned ). Herein lies the problem.

The letting agent arranged for the cleaners to attend the property at 9am on the Sunday. The ex was under the impression that they weren't coming until about tea time. Myself and my daughter didn't know what time they were coming, as it's nothing to do with me for a start, and my daughter wasn't living there anyway.

When the cleaners got there, there was still stuff in the house and the letting agent rang both parties to arrange for them to collect it asap. The ex had important stuff there; bank card, season ticket, work ID etc. He was informed by the cleaners that his stuff was there so he went to collect it. When he got there, they said it wasn't there/they'd put it in a bag/ it had been stolen by either me or my daughter/they'd thrown it away, the story varies depending who you're speaking to, as the letting agent is coming up with different versions each time she is spoken to. The ex had left some polyfiller etc in the house to fix some screw holes in the wall as agreed but couldn't do it as the cleaners had thrown that away. His plan had been to go back to the house, do the repairs and clean the house, but he was unable to do so as they had started to throw stuff out and clean up. The letting agent is insistent that she told him that the cleaners were going in early, he said she didn't (it wasn't written in any form, just a verbal discussion).

Should the letting agent have allowed the cleaners in without getting permission in writing from the ex who was living there, bearing in mind that officially the tenancy didn't end until 11.59 pm last night? He's rightly livid that his stuff was there one minute, gone the next. He's thinking of either making a formal complaint (not sure who to, any ideas?) or going to the police to report the theft of his id etc. The cleaning wasn't done very well; my daughter was pointing out even basic stuff that wasn't done, i.e. kitchen cupboards not wiped out, bits all over the work surface and even the check out lady said it wasn't very good. My daughter is concerned that she won't get the deposit back, the ex is ringing her every five minutes and the letting agent won't speak to her ex as she said he was abusive. Thoughts please? Thank you.

Arleen

"Was under the impression" sounds a lot like he didn't ask what time they will be coming by. Am I correct?

And if you he had things there, but they were removed to an undisclosed location, go to the police. They cannot just steal his stuff.

CathA

Arleen wrote: »

"Was under the impression" sounds a lot like he didn't ask what time they will be coming by. Am I correct?

And if you he had things there, but they were removed to an undisclosed location, go to the police. They cannot just steal his stuff.

Sorry I've just found out that that bit was not quite right. My daughter hadn't told him, the letting agent agent says she thought my daughter or me had told him (why would I? )the letting agent then changed her story and said she had told him so confusion seems to be rife.
The main question is-should the LA have arranged the cleaning without getting permission in writing / email/text from him? She is well aware of the issues between my daughter and the ex and the reason he IS the ex. She may well have spoken to my daughter about the final clean but as it was only him living there she should double check with him? Thanks.

Arleen

CathA wrote: »

Sorry I've just found out that that bit was not quite right. My daughter hadn't told him, the letting agent agent says she thought my daughter or me had told him (why would I? )the letting agent then changed her story and said she had told him so confusion seems to be rife.
The main question is-should the LA have arranged the cleaning without getting permission in writing / email/text from him? She is well aware of the issues between my daughter and the ex and the reason he IS the ex. She may well have spoken to my daughter about the final clean but as it was only him living there she should double check with him? Thanks.

No one will get to the truth, as clearly both the daughter and the ex-are not exactly forthcoming with what was said. At least that is my sense of it, so lets stick to the facts.

Fact one is that the tenancy ended on the 18th, which unless specified differently means you have to move out before that date, not on that date. For the same reasons why you move to a place on the date of the tenancy agreement, not on that day + 1. From that date on they have no right to this place, and ex should have moved out.

He didn't, cleaners/agent got !!!!ed. Now depending on your lease, his stuff could be considered as abandoned in which case agent/landlord can do whatever they wish with this stuff (check the contract for what happens in that case). In either case, since he has shown on the scene a few hours later, and let them know that he is coming and I am quite sure that they didn't have a trash truck ready outside, doing rounds instantly to the dump - the things are somewhere. And them refusing to produce them screams to me some faul play, whether they were in the right or not, so he should just go to the police.

Cakeguts

The bit I don't understand about this story is why did the ex leave all of his important belongings in a house and move out. If he was still living there he would have let the cleaners in. So is he saying that he left his belongings in an unoccupied house and went out?

The whole thing doesn't make sense. If the tenancy ended just before midnight why wasn't the ex packing up to move? You don't say what happened to the rest of his belongings only what happened to a bank card ete

He needs to go to the police and report a theft.
.

CathA

He'd left the stuff there as he was going back to the house on Sunday, which he is quite entitled to as it was still " his" house until midnight when the tenancy ended (the LA agrees with that) . He was going to collect it when he'd gone back to do repairs and clean. He'd put the furniture etc into store so I imagine he wouldn't be able to sleep there. No idea where he was on the Saturday night to be honest.

Cakeguts

CathA wrote: »

He'd left the stuff there as he was going back to the house on Sunday, which he is quite entitled to as it was still " his" house until midnight when the tenancy ended (the LA agrees with that) . He was going to collect it when he'd gone back to do repairs and clean. He'd put the furniture etc into store so I imagine he wouldn't be able to sleep there. No idea where he was on the Saturday night to be honest.

Now the story makes even less sense.

The ex is saying that he moved everything out of the house including his furniture but left behind important documents in an unoccupied house? I don't understand why anyone would do that.

G_M

CathA wrote: »

..... the ex stayed in the house until the end of tenancy date (notice all served correctly and agreed by all parties). The end date was yesterday, Sunday 18th December.
Generally that means 12.00 noon or at the end of the day (midnight).

The letting agent arranged for the cleaners to attend the property at 9am on the Sunday.
This is premature unless agreed.

The ex was under the impression that they weren't coming until about tea time. ... my daughter didn't know what time they were coming, .... and my daughter wasn't living there anyway.
but I assume she is a joint tenant so she still has rights and obligations

When the cleaners got there, there was still stuff in the house and the letting agent rang both parties to arrange for them to collect it asap.
why did the 2 joint tenants tell the agent to get the cleaners out since the tenancy had not ended?

The ex had important stuff there; bank card, season ticket, work ID etc. He was informed by the cleaners that his stuff was there so he went to collect it. When he got there, they said it wasn't there/they'd put it in a bag/ it had been stolen by either me or my daughter/they'd thrown it away, the story varies depending who you're speaking to, as the letting agent is coming up with different versions each time she is spoken to.
Police. Theft.

The ex had left some polyfiller etc in the house to fix some screw holes in the wall as agreed but couldn't do it as the cleaners had thrown that away. His plan had been to go back to the house, do the repairs and clean the house, but he was unable to do so as they had started to throw stuff out and clean up. The letting agent is insistent that she told him that the cleaners were going in early, he said she didn't (it wasn't written in any form, just a verbal discussion).
Police. Theft.

Should the letting agent have allowed the cleaners in without getting permission in writing from the ex who was living there, bearing in mind that officially the tenancy didn't end until 11.59 pm last night?
No. Letting agent out of order.

He's rightly livid that his stuff was there one minute, gone the next. He's thinking of either making a formal complaint (not sure who to, any ideas?) or going to the police to report the theft of his id etc.
Clearly he has to report ID, banks cards etc as lost stolen. Police should be informed and a crime number obtained. Whether the police will undertake a serious investigation, unless pressured, is uncertain.

The cleaning wasn't done very well; my daughter was pointing out even basic stuff that wasn't done, i.e. kitchen cupboards not wiped out, bits all over the work surface and even the check out lady said it wasn't very good. My daughter is concerned that she won't get the deposit back, the ex is ringing her every five minutes and the letting agent won't speak to her ex as she said he was abusive. Thoughts please? Thank you.

Letter to agent. Short, polite, concise with bullet points of salient facts eg

* tenancy not due to expire till midnight on 18th
* cleaners entered without written consent during the tenancy period
* items missing following cleaners access (list items at end of letter)
* police informed of theft - crime number 1234
* cleaning done inadequately, and no opportunity provided for tenants to undertake their own repairs /cleaning, therefore no further liability for damage or further cleaning

End by requesting return of full deposit within 3 days, an listing missing items.

You could also make a claim for compensation for the cost of missing items, but I'd hold back - get the deposit sorted first, then write again.

glasgowdan

The exes stuff isn't your concern. Stop getting involved.

Just make sure the property is clean, get the deposit and forget it

CathA

G_M wrote: »

Letter to agent. Short, polite, concise with bullet points of salient facts eg

* tenancy not due to expire till midnight on 18th
* cleaners entered without written consent during the tenancy period
* items missing following cleaners access (list items at end of letter)
* police informed of theft - crime number 1234
* cleaning done inadequately, and no opportunity provided for tenants to undertake their own repairs /cleaning, therefore no further liability for damage or further cleaning

End by requesting return of full deposit within 3 days, an listing missing items.

You could also make a claim for compensation for the cost of missing items, but I'd hold back - get the deposit sorted first, then write again.

Thank you. That's pretty much what I was thinking. I'll pass this on to my daughter and thanks again.

saajan_12

CathA wrote: »

The main question is-should the LA have arranged the cleaning without getting permission in writing / email/text from him? She is well aware of the issues between my daughter and the ex and the reason he IS the ex. She may well have spoken to my daughter about the final clean but as it was only him living there she should double check with him? Thanks.

No, as JOINT tenants, your daughter and the ex can be treated as a unit, so telling one of them is telling both in this situation.

However other than the issue of who was told, if the tenancy hadn't yet ended, the LL / LL's agent / LL's cleaners can't just let themselves in. If things were taken, that's theft out of the home. If that final day was the planned fixing day, the tenants can likely argue out of most deposit deduction claims: this would be on the basis that their tenancy was cut short by the LL / their representative and hence the tenants didn't have a chance to fix.