Over 50% Deposit Required Upfront for Bespoke Job

JakiT

Hi - we have asked for a fairly local firm to do a bespoke job in our flat.
The firm have come to do the measuring up and quotes but don't always respond to emails until I chase them up.

The percentage of the job is about 56% required upfront...it's not so much the percentage though as the amount. They want nearly £1000. Plus, I had problems getting hold of a firm to do the job...so don't know anybody who's used them personally which rather worries me. I don't like the idea of just paying this amount into a bank account of a firm I don't really know. What recourse would I have if they turn out to be unreliable? They have a lot of good testimonials not their site but anybody can write a testimonial.

Please advise. Thanks

krey

depends, what kind of work exactly is it?

JakiT

Hi Krey

It is mainly shelving and cupboards for the hall area

phill99

TBH as someone that runs a property maintenance company, I would want an upfront payment for bespoke work. Materials will be purchased that can only be used on your job. If you decide to pull out, then they are left with a materials bill and out of pocket as a result.


The thing I find very odd is that if B & Q fit your kitchen or Everest fit your windows they require full payment before they set foot in your house, but everyone is happy to pay over money in this way, but always question the small traders.

JakiT

Mmm, I see your point but I'm just not happy paying nearly £1000 to a small firm I know little about. I mean, other people have done jobs for us in the past and it's always been the done thing to pay after the work. If you sign and agree to the work, that is a binding contract. A friend of mine who deals a lot with builders says he wouldn't pay anything upfront but pay them on a daily basis. Or he advised to get them to deliver the materials to the house and pay the firm that supplies them although he thought it odd that they don't have a credit account with suppliers.

At the same time, I know that Bespoke is a bit different...but had some Bespoke work done before and we paid after the job. The contract is based on trust. OK, they don't want to be ripped off but equally nor do we. What protection is there for me once I've handed over the money? It works both ways. Since I posted this other people I know have advised that over 50% seems extortionate. If it had been 20% then yes. That might be reasonable.

krey

I usually ask for 10% upfront for such stuff where there is little to no materials needed and it's the first time I have dealt with said person, just to see if they are serious and won't mess with me.

JakiT

Yes I would be quite happy to pay 10% or 20% max. That seems fair on both sides, both of which are agreeing to take a small risk

elver_man

I have a property maintenance company and can understand your predicament, however the example that Phill99 put forward does make you wonder why small traders are given a hard life, not that I would want or have ever asked for full payment upfront


To be honest, reading your initial post I detect that you are not fully happy with the company anyway i.e. you had to chase them to respond, you do not know of anyone who can recommend them and now you have an issue with an upfront payment. If it were me I would continue looking for an alternative company that someone can recommend. I have always found that if there is any doubt in your mind from the beginning then seek alternative solutions as that doubt will always be there even at the end of the job on things like work quality or the guarantee offered.


Therefore Go with gut feel


I will however give my views on the upfront payment,
Its difficult to understand what you mean by Bespoke, if the cupboards are made as units off site and are vastly different to standard units then I can understand an upfront material payment being required and your friends idea of you paying the material supplier and having these delivered direct may help ease your mind but your contractor may not be too happy as he may have marked up their prices considerably in the quote to you. However, if its just purchasing standard materials to construct the cupboards on site then yes 50% is high and I may ask for 10 - 15% of the material cost upfront (no labour) and the rest on completion, it just depends what my impression is after our first meeting. You do not say how the amount (56%) relates to a labour and materials split.


However, I also go with my gut feel and agree its all about trust. Recent a small job completed totalled £880 , materials specially ordered on a 3 week lead time amounted to £670, labour £210. They were a new customer to me but I had a good feeling about them and although they offered to pay for materials upfront, I declined. They gave me a cheque when I delivered the bill next day and I now have additional work from them in the new year.


I travel about 60 miles for some jobs and never advertise but I always find that if customers have not heard of me personally before, in the end they know someone who has, be it a friend of a friend or just word of mouth in the local. Its therefore strange that a fairly local company can not be recommended by someone local to you.

JakiT

Hi elver man

Thanks for that. That's very helpful to see it from your side. Let me try and answer some of your questions.

English is not the first language of this firm so there were some communication issues so I wasn't sure how much would be done in the workshop. But the measurements for shelving and cupboards were pretty specific just for our job. I thought one of them mentioned IKEA at one point as to where they get the materials. These were the two guys who came to measure up. But the main guy is the one who I have to chase up by email. He's also not English.

I was happy with their reliability for doing the measuring up and also the 3D design although they'd gone for the more expensive option in the design. But they were happy to redesign it to near our budget as possible. Again, I was happy with that. This was all done by email and it was he who said was I happy to go ahead and he mentioned about dates and deposits etc. I responded and had one more minor question and confirmed my interest and probable go ahead. But then I didn't hear anything for ten days and had to chase up (probably 2nd or 3rd time I've had to do this). He was apologetic and said he didn't get it due to some internet connection (which seems a bit odd to me). That's when he sent the amount required for the deposit and bank details and when the earliest date the work could start and how long it would take. But no mention of labour and materials breakdown.

As for recommendations, they weren't my first choice, but the person who's done bespoke wardrobes for us before, doesn't do halls, and therein lies the problem. Or at least he makes bedrooms a priority and he was fully booked until Christmas when I contacted him in October. It is difficult enough to find local bespoke and even harder to find someone who goes beyond bedrooms and kitchens! I live in a small town and so looked at local firms in the nearest cities about 20-30 miles away, hence no personal recommendations. The testimonials and photos on the internet looked good but that's all I had to go on.

Incidentally, the other guy who did the bespoke wardrobes, didn't ask for any money upfront. In a small town people tend to do things on recommendation, trust and word of mouth and that's how I'm used to working to be honest. As you say, these things can pay off in future work.

So as you see, I'm torn. Happy about somethings but it's the upfront amount which bothers me, especially with no personal recommendations.

elver_man

Reading your reply I can fully understand how you feel. I would still say go with your Gut feel if you have doubt walk away.


Obtaining quotes is not just about the final value, from a customers view point its the ideal opportunity to get a feel for the trader and the way they run their business, any doubts and I would decide not to continue. Similarly as a trader i treat it as a way of getting to know the customer with whom I am hopefully going to work, you know fairly quickly if you want to proceed with a quote based on the interaction.


I would advise to get the Labour and Material broken down and also confirm the materials to be used i.e. are they infact from Ikea?


I totally agree with you about local traders in local communities, I myself live in a village of about 150 people and we are 6 miles from the nearest town to the East. Every other direction its rural with small hamlets and then a couple of small villages after 15 miles, hence why I sometimes travel the 60 miles.


I cant tell you what to do but given your concerns of certain matters if it were possible, I would suggest waiting for your local chap to become available if he would do work in the hall or get him to suggest someone in the same line of work as he is in as he must come across these trades whilst carrying out his business.


What ever you decide I hope it woks out for you.

david1951

I pay 50% upfront to a carpenter that works for me, but he is really nice, very reliable and does a great job. The first time I commissioned him I only knew that he was really nice but it was just a small job so not much of a gamble.

As others have said - go with your gut feeling.