PIP denied, advice needed about appeal please

Brook89

Hi all,

I had my PIP assessment last week and they sent the report to DWP on Thursday, anyway I rang PIP helpline today and they said for the care element I've been denied and for the mobility element I've also been denied, I asked why and was told it was purely based on the medical assessors report.

She apparently put that I'm on the lowest form of painkillers available , isn't that paracetamol? I'm on Codeine Phosphate 30mg up to 4 times a day, which isn't a low form of painkiller, even out of hours doctors wouldn't prescribe me any when I ran out a few weeks ago as they said they don't have access to my medical records and they can't prescribe it anyway as it's classed as an opiate which they said I could potentially sell on the street as it's a strong drug, which goes against what the medical assessor said that I'm on the lowest form of painkillers.

Also she said she saw no problem with my walking even though I can't walk any faster than at a snails pace due to the tumour on my right leg which is a very large mass which affects my ability to walk and what used to take me 10 minutes (walk to my local shop) now takes 45 minutes, but the assessor claims I've no problem with my walking and she saw no evidence to suggest as such, although she witnessed me walking and saw as I struggled to stand yet reported I've no issues walking and in her opinion I'd have no issues walking at least 200 metres with no problems!

And apparently the DWP said they only go on what the medical assessors report and that they don't have access to them, I told them I gave permission to access my medical records on the form and provided them with my consultants contact information and gp's information but they said they're not allowed to access them and the assessors only use the information if they feel they need to.. this wasn't mentioned anywhere on the form or anywhere else.

They've now said if I appeal it's a good idea to get a letter from my consultant and gp and also medical staff that see me on dialysis who can see first hand how it affects me, I said I didn't provide any letters as I gave permission for them to contact who they needed to, because when I went for my ESA assessment they had access to all my medical records and medication list and all letters from my consultant and gp etc and they said they didn't know why I had to go for the assessment as he could see from all those letters and notes etc and just by looking at me that I'm not a well man.

Now how would you go about the appeal? As I'm going to (try anyway) to get a letter from my gp and consultant and staff off the dialysis ward who can confirm my difficulties and how dialysis affects me etc and the problems I have with my mobility.

If I'd have known I'd needed those things in the first place I told them I'd have sent them.

I mean seriously kidney failure is a permanent disability if you don't get a transplant as you never have to stop having dialysis, if you do you simply die, and the tumour on my leg is obviously a disability as it affects my walking and other things to a significant degree.

Advice please as I'm just so shocked I've been denied both components as I took an online test before applying for PIP which showed I got enough points to get the higher rate of the mobility component and standard rate of the care component and from the report the assessor did they've decided I'm entitled to nothing.

NeilCr

First step is a mandatory reconsideration. Information and advice here

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

Please be aware of the time scales. 30 days from the date of the letter informing you of the decision

It might be a good idea to get some help from CAB or local advice centre

As an aside I'm on Codeine Phosphate and my GP prescribed it quite happily.

w06

don't see the relevance really but you can buy codeine (co-codamol 8/500) over the counter without a prescription, which might have been what they meant.

antrobus

Brook89 wrote: »

....She apparently put that I'm on the lowest form of painkillers available , isn't that paracetamol? I'm on Codeine Phosphate 30mg up to 4 times a day, ...

It's a mild opiate. But I'm not sure that what painkiller you have been prescribed matters.

Brook89 wrote: »

...Also she said she saw no problem with my walking even though I can't walk any faster than at a snails pace due to the tumour on my right leg which is a very large mass which affects my ability to walk and what used to take me 10 minutes (walk to my local shop) now takes 45 minutes, but the assessor claims I've no problem with my walking and she saw no evidence to suggest as such, although she witnessed me walking and saw as I struggled to stand yet reported I've no issues walking and in her opinion I'd have no issues walking at least 200 metres with no problems!...

Average walking speed is 5km/hour; so a 10 minute walk is 800 metres plus. If just you've told the assessor that you can manage to walk 800 metres they might well assume that 200 metres would be no problem.

Brook89 wrote: »

.....Advice please as I'm just so shocked I've been denied both components as I took an online test before applying for PIP which showed I got enough points to get the higher rate of the mobility component and standard rate of the care component and from the report the assessor did they've decided I'm entitled to nothing.

But;

Under PIP a person with physical problems moving around will only qualify for the enhanced rate mobility component if they can walk no more than 20 metres.

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/PIP-travel/Qualifying-for-PIP-mobility-component

Other than that PIP works on the basis of what you can and can't do, not how ill you are. How many points you get would depend on your detailed response on the form and what was said during the assessment.

MoneyMate

It took me 9 months but was only possible because of the CAB excellent help cutting through the legal goblygoof .
Please don't try to complete any paperwork without your local citizens advice centers help, if nothing else it's free and they will tell you your chances of success , all the best.
never give

up

Brook89

NeilCr wrote: »

As an aside I'm on Codeine Phosphate and my GP prescribed it quite happily.

Oh my GP prescribes it with no problem and I've got it on repeat prescription now, I was on about the out of hours doctors, there the ones that said they can't prescribe it.

w06 wrote: »

don't see the relevance really but you can buy codeine (co-codamol 8/500) over the counter without a prescription, which might have been what they meant.

I don't see the relevance either but the highest amount of Codeine you can get over the counter is 8mg as in your 8/500 only contains 8mg of Codeine and it's limited to 2 boxes maximum, the Codeine I have prescribed is 30mg which you can't get other than on prescription as it's nearly 4 times stronger than what you can buy.

antrobus wrote: »

It's a mild opiate. But I'm not sure that what painkiller you have been prescribed matters.

Yes that's what I mean it's definitely not classed as a mild painkiller as it's in a different class of painkiller than paracetamol

antrobus wrote: »

Average walking speed is 5km/hour; so a 10 minute walk is 800 meters plus. If just you've told the assessor that you can manage to walk 800 meters they might well assume that 200 meters would be no problem.

But;

Under PIP a person with physical problems moving around will only qualify for the enhanced rate mobility component if they can walk no more than 20 meters.

Other than that PIP works on the basis of what you can and can't do, not how ill you are. How many points you get would depend on your detailed response on the form and what was said during the assessment.

No I didn't tell the assessor I could walk 800 meters or for 10 minutes solid, I made it quite clear that I can't walk more than 20 meters without needing to rest and that's why a 10 minute journey now takes me 45 minutes (1 and a 1/2 hours return trip).

And I'm extremely ill and can't do most things anymore, I made it very clear to the assessor all I can't do and how much worse I feel after dialysis, after dialysis I literally rely on hospital transport to take me home and once home I usually fall asleep almost straight away and can't even prepare myself any food I feel that bad.

MoneyMate wrote: »

It took me 9 months but was only possible because of the CAB excellent help cutting through the legal goblygoof .
Please don't try to complete any paperwork without your local citizens advice centers help, if nothing else it's free and they will tell you your chances of success , all the best.
never give up

Unfortunately I've no cab office near me and to get an appointment with DIAL they said it could take 3-4 weeks

NeilCr

Does your CAB not have an outreach service?

To be honest most mandatory reconsiderations fail so you could do it yourself -using the info I posted and other material available. Then you'd get to the appeal stage. Alternatively, you could see if the DWP would give you an extension till the time you get an appointment with DIAL. I've found them quite flexible on this if you explain you are seeking help with the form and this is the first appointment you could get

Have a chat with DIAL for their thoughts

If you do it yourself try not to get to caught up with your view on the unfairness of the decision. Look at the descriptors and what the DWP have said and explain why you disagree. Medical evidence is good

antrobus

Brook89 wrote: »

....Yes that's what I mean it's definitely not classed as a mild painkiller as it's in a different class of painkiller than paracetamol..

It's a mild opiate. It is what it is. You don't get PIP points for taking one painkiller as opposed to another.

Brook89 wrote: »

.....No I didn't tell the assessor I could walk 800 meters or for 10 minutes solid, I made it quite clear that I can't walk more than 20 meters without needing to rest and that's why a 10 minute journey now takes me 45 minutes (1 and a 1/2 hours return trip).

So why are you telling us that you can walk 800 metres?

You need to understand how PIP mobility works.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/PIP-travel/Qualifying-for-PIP-mobility-component

Tommo1980

It was a big mistake not including medical evidence. Ideally you should be providing letters/reports from medical professionals that support what you are saying on the application form, relevant to the descriptors.

It is a system under immense pressure. You need to spoon feed it to the assessor. Make it easy for them to make a clear cut decision based on the paperwork you provide them.

Tom

Alice_Holt

Info on PIP appeals:
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-appeals

Mandatory Reconsideration form and template:
https://www.leicester.gov.uk/media/178163/mandatory-reconsideration-request.pdf
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool

PIP activities, describtors and points:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

Do try to contact your nearest CAB.

See also earlier posts i.e:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5548386

When_the_going_gets_tough

Hi the first step is to get the mr in. Decisions are rarely changed here so don't wait for medical evidence. Then start gathering medical evidence and it needs to focus on how you perform against the descriptors. Expect to go to appeal. Then you need tpprepare your case by going through the bundle of paperwork. Pick it apart but not on the unfairness. Show by examples in detail how you think the descriptors apply to you. The citizens advice website has some helpful
Nformation on all this. Try and see if any advice agency can't
Help you with the appeal. On the day make sure you attend. There is a high success rate for pip appeals that are attended. Make sure you keep to all the time limits. Good luck, oh and send any medical evidence in to the tribunal when you get it.