Extension at the front of house (Moving Soil Pipe)

ST1991

Hi!

We have bought our first house, and settling in quite well. There are a few things we plan to do in the coming years, including a possible extension to the front of the house.

I am wondering if anyone has any knowledge of this subject. We have not made any planning permission applications, as we will first need to save enough for the work (and we've only lived there a few months!)

Currently: Mid-terrace 1900 solid stone house. The house already has an extension at the front that is home to the (extremely small) kitchen. It 'pokes' straight out from the front of the house about 3M long and 2.4m wide. The front door goes straight into the extension.
We plan on enlarging the already-there extension this across the whole width of the house, which gives a rough size of 3M x 5M (essentially another 3x2.5 added to it)

1. Next door have already done this, so the front will be much more in keeping with the neighbours house. Because of this, i assume that a planning application would be fairly easy to obtain without much issue?

2. Neighbours have already mentioned to us that if we do extend all the way across they are happy to us to go to their wall (Party Wall) and use that. I assume a party wall agreement would need to be drawn up to this effect.

However...

3. The soil pipe (waste from toilet?) goes straight down the front of our house for both ours and the neighbours upstairs bathrooms. Is it even possible to move this? The problem i see is that once a single storey extension is there, the pipe can no longer run vertically down the house, as it would run 'over' the single storey extension?

So... extending over an existing drain and moving soil pipe. Is it a no-go, or very expensive and not worth it?

McKneff

You need to speak to the planning depth at the council

ST1991

McKneff wrote: »

You need to speak to the planning depth at the council

Thanks. I was just wondering if anyone else had experience especially regarding moving the soil pipe.

I spoke to them before about installing a drop-kerb and they wouldn't do anything/give any advice, just that i pay a call-out fee and they'd come and look... I don't really want to do the same if we aren't planning on the extension for a couple of years. We are saving, but if it's a case of multiple tens-of-thousands then we won't bother.

phil24_7

A soil pipe could go over the roof with the correct fall but you will likely need permission from the water authority to move the shared drain.

The council may also be against front extensions, even though your neighbours has done it...in fact they may have done it without consent...or building control involvement! If they have been given permission then they would be hard pressed to refuse your application as there is a precedent set.

ST1991

phil24_7 wrote: »

A soil pipe could go over the roof with the correct fall but you will likely need permission from the water authority to move the shared drain.

The council may also be against front extensions, even though your neighbours has done it...in fact they may have done it without consent...or building control involvement! If they have been given permission then they would be hard pressed to refuse your application as there is a precedent set.

Thankyou! So effectively it can go down the house, then over the roof (at the correct angle) and straight down again?

I assume all would be well, as next door had a falling out with the house on the other side of them about their front extension, and that neighbor called the council about it. They visited, showed them the paperwork, and went away.

Assume that all is well with theirs, although they did also skip quickly over the fact it was extended as a 'porch'... despite the fact they are using it as a kitchen..

Is planning specific to use? E.G if we state we are planning to extend for a porch, but then in time change the use of that room would it be an issue?

phil24_7

A porch wont require building regulations but an extension would. It is entirely possible to build it to the correct building standards for an extension but as a 'porch' and then after a period of time knock down the dividing wall, but you run the risk of falling fowl of things further down the line. Do things right and do them once.

A soil pipe over a roof may also look a little...odd! You could box it in in the extension and run it under the extension provided you had a manhole in front of the extension (I take it the extension doesn't go to the boundary?)

ST1991

phil24_7 wrote: »

A porch wont require building regulations but an extension would. It is entirely possible to build it to the correct building standards for an extension but as a 'porch' and then after a period of time knock down the dividing wall, but you run the risk of falling fowl of things further down the line. Do things right and do them once.

A soil pipe over a roof may also look a little...odd! You could box it in in the extension and run it under the extension provided you had a manhole in front of the extension (I take it the extension doesn't go to the boundary?)

That's what i did worry about with the neighbours when they said it was done as a porch!

The way i had ours planned was to meet their wall, as the current extension comes out to the exact same length from the house, and we could just build across. I have a feeling theirs is ON the boundary already, but can't be sure. The boundaries of this house are all over the place, and none of them are straight...

If we didn't build to the boundary, then there would be a gap between our extension and next doors and in that case we also wouldn't need to move the soil pipe as it runs along that side. but, it might look odd, having a 1-2 foot gap between when all the others join?

Porch or no porch, if we apply for planning permission that makes it look exactly like next door i'm hoping the answer would be yes!
(The current extension on our house is already a party wall for the other side's porch, although theirs is smaller as they are end-terrace and their front door is on the side. It currently looks very higgldy piggldy with ours only half the width of the house...)

Doozergirl

ST1991 wrote: »

Thankyou! So effectively it can go down the house, then over the roof (at the correct angle) and straight down again?

I assume all would be well, as next door had a falling out with the house on the other side of them about their front extension, and that neighbor called the council about it. They visited, showed them the paperwork, and went away.

Assume that all is well with theirs, although they did also skip quickly over the fact it was extended as a 'porch'... despite the fact they are using it as a kitchen..

Is planning specific to use? E.G if we state we are planning to extend for a porch, but then in time change the use of that room would it be an issue?

Only small porches can be built without planning permission. As you already have a front extension, you may not even have the permitted development right left to build without planning permission.

That is moot, though. The local authority will not be concerned with your usage. If it is bigger than that allowed under PD or PD has been used, you need planning.

I don't think I'd be that happy with the aesthetic of a soil stack and associated joints and rodding access running over a roof.

It's possible, but perhaps not the best solution, to leave the soil stack, incorporate it into the extension and create a new manhole outside. Either way it sounds like you will need a new inspection chamber and Building Control and the Water Authority will dictate. It sounds like whatever happens, you almost certainly need a Buildover Agreement and that applies even for a porch that wouldn't normally require regs.

phil24_7

Many 'extensions' of this type were part of the original building or added long before records were kept, many houses on my street are back to front with the kitchens as an 'extension' on the front and are considered original to the house, so this may come into play with permitted development.

phil24_7

Search your local authority planning portal for you neighbours address and see what comes up.

ST1991

Thanks everyone, some really helpful advice here!

I would be worried about housing the soil pipe inside our house/extension. Especially as it is not just for us, but also next door! Especially as it would be the kitchen, we wouldn't want an unexpected leak whilst cooking dinner...!

I assume that our options are:

1. Build up to the neighbours extension, move the drain and soil stack to go over the roof to a new drain at the front of the house.

2. Build up-to the soil stack, and leave a gap between our extension and next doors. No need to move the soil-stack and associated drain. No need for a build-over agreement.... but possibly odd-looking.

The house is 1900 and the current extension was added in the 80's or 90's (i don't have that to hand). Don't know if that helps!