Energy scheme scanadal

Yankees

Hi qwert yuiop.
Is that the argument now, ie renewable energy is not environmentally friendly???
Over the years I read a lot about this type of technology and overwhelming view is that it is better for the environment than using fossil fuels. Of course I've also seen the US Big Oil viewpoint which in my opinion is driven purely by money. I think I'll side with the scientists who believe in global warming and the need to reduce carbon emissions etc. Not quite ready to believe in people like Trump and Sarah Palin just yet!!!

If you are looking to prove I'm not daft, you could look on the big world wide web on sites such as the UK Energy Saving Trust, which includes details on the benefits of renewables.

Yankees

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

I see there's kiln dried firewood for sale in tesco. That's oil/gas heating via wood. Efficiency level?

mmmm.....don't quite get this point?

qwert_yuiop

Talk about a straw man.

I dispute none of the above. I accept anthropogenic climate change and I can't stand the sight of trump. Or his hair.

I heat my house with air dried home grown wood from my own farm. Apart from chainsaw usage, contribution To co2 increase and fossil fuel depletion pretty much zero. Can the same be said about wood pellet heating? I don't know but it's certainly much less likely to be, since the manufacturing process must demand huge oil or gas consumption. How much fossil fuel is saved compared to just using oil or gas Directly for heating? Is there any saving? Could it involve more fossil fuel use - I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Perhaps you'll tell us.

Kiln dried firewood. Now there's an absurdity. Let's use firewood and save on fossil fuels - by burning fossil fuels. Oh and it's shipped in by gas guzzling lorry from Eastern Europe.

CEON44

I dont believe there is that much oil used to produce pellets. As far as i know Balcas for example have electric machinery( ok fair enough,electrcity had to be generated somehow)The process of making the pellets is compression. They are just made of sawdust compressed very tightly.

qwert_yuiop

It has to be dried. How much electricity is required?How many blow heaters would it run?

If you're keen to be green, clean and better than the mean, get a wooly jumper and thermal long johns.

No point in speculating, folks. We need the numbers.

Yankees

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Talk about a straw man.

I dispute none of the above. I accept anthropogenic climate change and I can't stand the sight of trump. Or his hair.

I heat my house with air dried home grown wood from my own farm. Apart from chainsaw usage, contribution To co2 increase and fossil fuel depletion pretty much zero. Can the same be said about wood pellet heating? I don't know but it's certainly much less likely to be, since the manufacturing process must demand huge oil or gas consumption. How much fossil fuel is saved compared to just using oil or gas Directly for heating? Is there any saving? Could it involve more fossil fuel use - I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Perhaps you'll tell us.

Kiln dried firewood. Now there's an absurdity. Let's use firewood and save on fossil fuels - by burning fossil fuels. Oh and it's shipped in by gas guzzling lorry from Eastern Europe.

qwert yuiop, you say you "dispute none of the above" but then go onto to dispute it. But fair play to you if happen to live on a fire and have a sustainable source of fuel on your own land. I applaud you. However not all of us have our own land. I live in a house in heart of suburbia and a number of years ago I had a choice whether to replace my increasingly inefficient oil boiler with a new oil boiler or to take a risk and embrace new environmentally friendly technology and got a wood pellet boiler and solar hot water panels installed. Trying to do my bit for the environment (and not trying to fleece the system to become a millionaire!!!).

On the argument of whether it is environmentally friendly or not, I have to admit that I am not a scientist working in this field every day. However, I would like to think I am fairly educated and rational and before making the decision I did spend significant time reading up about the industry. The creation of wood pellets is obviously not without some use of fossil fuels (even in driving the trucks to deliver the pellets). However I do source them as locally as I can, from Balcas. At times I could have bought them cheaper from England but chose not to do so as a conscience decision to reduce road miles / carbon impact. Balcas themselves have various ISO environmental standards, so again without being a scientist in this field, I need to place some reliance on these standards.

In summary, I would love to be able to a lumberjack and chop down my own wood on my own farm, but I can't. But I do believe the overwhelming information available that wood pellets are more sustainable and more environmentally friendly than pure fossil fuels.

Also, the point of the RHI scheme was to help the market develop at a faster rate than otherwise may have happened. A more rapid increase in demand for wood pellets will allow more businesses to invest in the capital required and this drive should help with the overall efficiency of the market, reduce fossil fuel dependency etc.

Some of your other points:
Personally I wouldn't buy wood shipped in from eastern Europe so wouldn't even try to defend this. (Isn't our coal shipped in from China?)

Also, what's the dig about calling me a "straw man" all about??

Yankees

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

If you're keen to be green, clean and better than the mean, get a wooly jumper and thermal long johns.

I do have woolly jumpers and long johns........I'll send you a photo if interested....hahaha :rotfl:

joefizz

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

It has to be dried. How much electricity is required?How many blow heaters would it run?

If you're keen to be green, clean and better than the mean, get a wooly jumper and thermal long johns.

No point in speculating, folks. We need the numbers.

I have an investment in a wood pellet producer over in England. The sawdust supply is from waste products of mills etc within a 35 mile radius.
The pellets are produced in a facility primarily powered by solar panels for the electricity needed to drive the machines. The pellets themselves are dried by, you guessed it, wood pellets. On initial startup this wasnt the case but a percentage of the production is set aside to be self sustaining.
Burning the pellets for the heating also produces electricity and this is used when the solar panels arent operating and also exported to the local grid. The hot air used to dry the pellets is also used to provide the heating for a local business development park instead of being exhausted into the air.
Its not perfect as perhaps 30-40% of output initially is used to self sustain and also during the winter months when solar doesnt drive the plant completely.
It does go to show though what can be achieved when a bit of thought is put into it and not just a way to heat empty barns.
Its how you use the excess in terms of hot air heating, electricity production etc but also where the plant is sited (near large points of use as in business development parks, hospitals, nursing homes) and in relation to ready and cheap sources of excess/waste wood.

That all requires joined up thinking, something this part of the world desperately lacks.

qwert_yuiop

Yankees wrote: »

qwert yuiop, you say you "dispute none of the above" but then go onto to dispute it. But fair play to you if happen to live on a fire and have a sustainable source of fuel on your own land. I applaud you. However not all of us have our own land. I live in a house in heart of suburbia and a number of years ago I had a choice whether to replace my increasingly inefficient oil boiler with a new oil boiler or to take a risk and embrace new environmentally friendly technology and got a wood pellet boiler and solar hot water panels installed. Trying to do my bit for the environment (and not trying to fleece the system to become a millionaire!!!).


The source of the wood is irrelevant. It's ordinary naturally dried locally produced fire wood.

All I'd like to know is the fossil fuel usage involved in wood pellet production. Drying and compressing with mighty machines powered by electricity or diesel does not seem environmentally friendly. If it's anything like the American ethanol from corn program,which involves a net increase on fossil fuel consumption, we need to know.
It could well be the sort of feel good nonsense we've all read about saving the world by not leaving the phone charger plugged in overnight, but let's all jet off to the continent and burn a half ton of aviation fuel.

. But I do believe the overwhelming information available that wood pellets are more sustainable and more environmentally friendly than pure fossil fuels.

I don't know. Maybe it is. We need to see the figures, and we can't believe or dismiss without knowing the amount of energy needed to be supplied and the ultimate energy available on combustion of pellets. Remember the hydrogen economy we were promised some years ago? Problem was, it took more energy to produce hydrogen than was made available.

Some of your other points:
Personally I wouldn't buy wood shipped in from eastern Europe so wouldn't even try to defend this. (Isn't our coal shipped in from China?)

The absurdity is using fossil fuel to dry biomass fuel. See USA boondoggle above.


Also, what's the dig about calling me a "straw man" all about??

it's not a dig. Look up the term straw man argument.

qwert_yuiop

Yankees wrote: »

I do have woolly jumpers and long johns........I'll send you a photo if interested....hahaha :rotfl:

I've a horrible image of you wearing your woolen jumper as long johns, Yorkshire ripper style.