Energy scheme scanadal

qwert_yuiop

CEON44 wrote: »

along with solar, wind and tidal power.

There's a long established tidal power station on the river rance in Brittany. We have several sites in this country which appear superficially feasible, the most obvious being strangford lough, which has been tested. There's a very clever tidal mill structure from the dark ages at mahee island, also on strangford.

There's a well known photo from the Bosnian war where during the siege of Gorazde rafts were tied in the river where bicycle wheels with blades fitted turned car alternators. Similar idea.
Life without fossil fuels is not as easy.

joefizz

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Where? Do you know of any vaguely tepid springs here, never mind Bath style hot ones. We're one of the least seismically and geothermal active countries.

Again incorrect assumption that you need hot springs or anything at the surface. Areas of the north coast, larne, fermanagh and lough neagh have viable deep geothermal hot rock/hot sand/deep aquifer locations to provide local heating and energy.
We are one of the most geothermal areas of the UK.

Of course the startup costs for this 'free' energy are what is stopping it but its already been discussed in the Assembly.

qwert_yuiop

joefizz wrote: »

Again incorrect assumption that you need hot springs or anything at the surface. Areas of the north coast, larne, fermanagh and lough neagh have viable deep geothermal

The hotter, the better. It's why Iceland is doing it and hardly any others. There's one power station in rotorua, New Zealand, famous for its hot rivers.

Of course the startup costs for this 'free' energy are what is stopping it but its already been discussed in the Assembly.

Not that viable then. The heat is free, getting at it isn't.

I'd say Bath is a lot more geothermally active.

joefizz

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Not that viable then.

Well it depends on your point of view, building a geothermal plant in larne to produce similar output to Kilroot would probably cost less than the RHI scheme....

...which I think brings us back on topic.

Nanpy

joefizz wrote: »

Well it depends on your point of view, building a geothermal plant in larne to produce similar output to Kilroot would probably cost less than the RHI scheme....

...which I think brings us back on topic.

Can I just say, you have the patience of a Saint. I really welcome your insight into wood pellet production.

Are the estimations of the potential costs to the taxpayer based on an assumption that wood pellets will always be a certain price? If the price drops or goes up will this change?

Yankees

Nanpy wrote: »

Are the estimations of the potential costs to the taxpayer based on an assumption that wood pellets will always be a certain price? If the price drops or goes up will this change?

Nanpy, for the domestic scheme the amount I get each year is essentially fixed from the start of the 7 years. It is based on an EPC survey which I had to get done for my house. It rises by inflation each year. There is also a cap of £2.5k per year. Essentially the government should know the cost of the domestic scheme now. I take the risk/benefit of the cost of wood pellets rising or falling.

For the non-domestic scheme, my understanding is that these installations are all metered and then they receive a rate per kWh. This then gives the logic of the more you burn, then the more you get. If the price of pellets rise significantly then it is likely the cost of pellets and the tariff receive will equalise out. But if the price of pellets fall there is more incentive to open the windows. The issue with the non-domestic scheme seems to the lack of a cap in the payments due, as opposed to the domestic scheme. This is why the estimates of overspend could vary significantly over the next 20 years.
[But I'm no expert in the non-domestic side, so I stand to be corrected].

Yankees

joefizz, thanks for adding in the "colour" about some of this renewable stuff. Very informative. It's harder than you think trying to hug a tree and save the world

waltsalt

The cynical views of qwerty uiop show why the incentive is/was needed in the first place. You're never going to convince the 'old guard' to make a change without compensating them for their efforts.

The failure of the scheme is both the poor application from our 'leaders' and the fact that the industry inflates prices in the first place because they know the incentives exist.

qwert_yuiop

Yes, indeed, folks, cynical as bedamned. Doubting Thomas's less credulous brother.

I found an analysis of the energy efficiency of pellets on the Georgia department of agriculture using pine trees, probably similar to the Sitka spruce used here. There is indeed a large input of diesel required, but utilisation of bark and brush wood as a heat source in the drying process minimises fossil fuel input, as well described by joefizz above. They claim an overall energy profit of five to one. Even if it's a lot less than that, it's still pretty impressive. So there we have it. It works. Joefizz and Yankees are right, I'm wrong.
Now, how will deti get out of these contracts?

oldhand

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Yes, indeed, folks, cynical as bedamned. Doubting Thomas's less credulous brother.

I found an analysis of the energy efficiency of pellets on the Georgia department of agriculture using pine trees, probably similar to the Sitka spruce used here. There is indeed a large input of diesel required, but utilisation of bark and brush wood as a heat source in the drying process minimises fossil fuel input, as well described by joefizz above. They claim an overall energy profit of five to one. Even if it's a lot less than that, it's still pretty impressive. So there we have it. It works.
Now, how will deti get out of these contracts?

How will they get out of the contracts? Why do they need to try? Usual story here Your up the creek,but the guy,lady who will no doubt take your job after the next pass the parcel will want to cover their !!! so they will find no fault whatsoever with the minister in charge at the time.
Makes you sick but until we elect ministers on all sides who will be anserable to us we are screwed..