flying freehold loft issue

stephen1983_2

Hi. Can anyone help? We've been in our house for 1 year and have noticed that part (the part directly above the 1st floor room that is exempt from our plans) of our loft has been bricked off my the neighbour. He has a flying freehold in our property. The deeds say that the first floor room is exempt from our plans but that is all. As I understand it, he should only have access and be using the first floor room. We have the freehold and therefore own all space beneath and above that room?

So if we are right and he shouldnt be using the loft space, how do we go about getting this space back? I'm not too sure when the work was done, but it was before we moved into the property. He bought the property next door in 2003.

Any help is most appreciated!

Thanks

Steve

Davesnave

It's taken you a year to notice this? Wow!

I suspect you may have to give us chapter and verse on what the title documents say on this matter, and in that connection it might be helpful to know what your neighbour's title says as well.

You can download all the documents (title + plans) from the Land Registry.
https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/overview

Or you could return to your solicitor for guidance. They should have explained all your and the neighbour's rights at the time of purchase.

davidmcn

stephen1983 wrote: »

So if we are right and he shouldnt be using the loft space, how do we go about getting this space back?

Once you are sure that you're right (doesn't sound like you are sure!), have a chat with your neighbour? Chances are it's been done out of ignorance rather than anything else. Is a bit of loft worth going legal about?

Richard_Webster

It will depend on the wording in respect of both titles.

If the neighbour's freehold title includes the first floor room then it will include everything above it unless either :

a) this is specifically excluded from the neighbour's title; or

b) the loft area above is specifically included in OP's title.

Jenniefour

Some lofts above older houses were not separate when they were built so the fact that there was/might have been one continuous loft over both properties is not an indication that all the loft space falls within your title.

sam.4000

Not always the case.
In my case:
I have ownership of the land ( alley way between houses and my neighbour has right of way)
He had floating freehold and most of the building above the alley is his ( I have a walk in cupboard over the alley) He has the loft space above this. If the space is above his room then he can have floating freehold of this.

stephen1983_2

thanks for all your replies!

the wording in their title says:

NOTE: As to the part tinted blue and tinted pink the title plan only the first floor room which forms part of *neighbour's property* is included in the title.

in my title it says:

NOTE: As to the part tinted blue and tinted pink on the filed plan the first floor room forming part of *neighbour's property* is excluded from the title.

i have spoken with a solicitor who has examined the titles and he is saying that the loft space above does belong to me and he is actually trespassing. Of course i don't actually know if the loft space is being used so I will have to ask the neighbour.

Steve

G_M

I'm no expert but that seems pretty clear.

The 1st floor room (and ONLY the 1st floor room) belongs to your neighbour.

Everything else which falls within the boundary of your Plan is yours.

Ideally resolve this amicably rather than going to court, though court is a final option if you so decide.

A friendly chat over tea and cake, with both Title documents and Plans to hand.

Explain you need to use the attic (eg for storage as he might be concerned you want to convert it which could have noise impact on his room below!) and so want to remove the wall.

Davesnave

Building a wall in that location would not be something to be entered into lightly, so this is either a very deliberate act, or there was a structure there which has just been 'enhanced' by the neighbour.

Either way, although I'd agree with GM's famous 'tea & cake' approach in the first instance, you may find that the neighbour isn't very cooperative.

If that's the case, removing a few bricks might be an interesting exercise.....

Can one claim adverse possession of a loft?

zagubov

I'd be very much surprised if someone could claim adverse possession by gradually extending their way into the interior of your actual house.

What next, extending into your cellar as well?

stephen1983_2

morning,

Although I would love to remove a few bricks I'm worried that i'll then uncover a bedroom (we suspect that he has increased his loft space which directly links to mine, otherwise why would he go to the bother of portioning that area of my loft?). The house has been split into 6 flats so I suspect he's used every inch of space to do this! I think I'm going to try the nice approach by ringing him and telling him what we've found and see what he says. Like some of you say it could be that he's automatically assumed it's his and just taken it by portioning it. If we can't talk it through then I think we'll have to go down the legal route - which could be costly? Although maybe shouldn't as he would be trespassing according to solicitor. If we did remove some bricks and find ourselves seeing someone's living space then I guess this could be seen as aggravating the situation and makes getting our space back even harder?