On-grid domestic battery storage
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EricMears said:Exiled_Tyke said:EricMears said:QrizB said:Early FITs were priced to give a ~5% IRR over the duration of the scheme. It was not meant to be a way of transferring money from billpayers to middle-class homeowners and rent-a-roof companies.
I first looked at fitting solar panels when planning our new build in 1996. At that point, it would have taken 400 years (yes : four hundred years !) to recoup the investment. From 2011 it was less than eight years.Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
Install 2: Sept 19, 600W SSE
Solax 6.3kWh battery1 -
Exiled_Tyke said:EricMears said:Exiled_Tyke said:EricMears said:QrizB said:Early FITs were priced to give a ~5% IRR over the duration of the scheme. It was not meant to be a way of transferring money from billpayers to middle-class homeowners and rent-a-roof companies.
I first looked at fitting solar panels when planning our new build in 1996. At that point, it would have taken 400 years (yes : four hundred years !) to recoup the investment. From 2011 it was less than eight years.
As we've seen, the SAP figure was too low, the range of regional SAP figures later introduced were also low, and expectations for degradation, maintenance (and possibly shading impact) were also too high. My rough calcs for my 2011 ESE system were for ~8.5% gross income, with a 12yr payback (ignoring lost int / cost of capital). In reality those numbers flipped with a ~12.5% gross income, and an 8yr payback.
My 2012 WNW had an estimated 20yr payback (again just on a simple basis), but looks like it will breakeven in the summer of 2025.
Being index linked is extremely important to all these calcs and returns.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.1 -
HiI think everyone's missing the root issue .... the FiT scheme was designed to encourage take-up with (at the time) reasonable rates of return based on the then available fully installed prices ..... so, like a few other early adopters would be aware, quotations when we started looking were typically seen at ~£20k for a 4kWp system ...Quite simply a ~7.1% (assuming above figure - I remember it as 7-8%) return on ~£20K would be a FiT return of ~£1420, so a UK system receiving ~41.3p/kWh tariff would logically need to generate ~3440kWh pa (1400/0.413), which equates to 4kWp system producing 860kWh/kWp, which would likely be seen as being a pretty average figure when taking varying orientation etc into account ....The way I see it is that my early installation returns pretty much what was originally expected with the setup we have and those that had their systems later but still received the same tariff band were simply part of the reasoning for the schemes existence ... to drive demand up and prices down thus encouraging future unsubsidised uptake of renewable energy technologies.Now, from memory & if anyone cares to check & read, the original consultation response document (lots of pages, long time to read, but it's probably still on the Ofgem site!) discusses many of the points recently made ... including the reluctance of the (then) generating sector to support the domestic sector receiving financial support - again, from memory, they seemed to want any support scheme to focus entirely upon themselves ... who'd have thunk it !!! ... I think that there were also a number of comments detailing tariff reduction plans and the eventual phasing out of the scheme, the overall scope/value of the scheme and details related to the administration/operation of what was (compared to Germany's and other related schemes) a scheme which was unnecessarily complicated ... but what would anyone expect of the UK Civil Service and their tendency to gold plate and overcomplicate anything they touch!As it turned out, the UK's approach tended to encourage installers to maintain artificially high prices longer than necessary (probably still does if the truth be told!), but to be fair, it ended up sitting somewhere between many of the more successful European offerings & the highly ineffective schemes in the USA which seem to have had a much lower tendency to lower installation prices through competitive pressure .... then again, there's Spain, but no need to detail their energy sector encouraged political meddling debacle here as everyone is probably already aware!HTH - Z"We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle2
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Here's the impact assessment from 2011, when DECC were reducing the FIT rates:Lots of interesting info there, including on the rate that PV installation costsere falling.N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Go elec & Tracker gas / Shell BB / Lyca mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 30MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.Taking a break, hope to be back eventually.Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs.0
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