Italian referendum

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Quasar wrote: »

If you want to discuss Italian banks, by all means do so. But what I have seen is a conflation with a referendum that has no bearing on them.

Besides, I can only repeat that it is British media and sites who promote this view of impending catastrophe. None of this doom prophesying is to be had in foreign media who treat all such matters with cooler and impartial heads. Italian banks have had for a while the same problems as other countries have had, and in spite of so many in the UK salivating over their demise (and the baaaad EU's), no disaster is looming quite yet. I suggest reading some foreign media, those who can, for gaining a balanced view of things.

PS. The Italian President has now appointed a new PM, Paolo Gentiloni. No political/aeconomic tsunamis, no disorders, no elections, no runs on the banks. Sorry the fun has been spoilt.

Eh?
If people DO read foreign-news sites as you suggest they will soon see just how wrong you are, won't they?
Try Google, folks.
To see the view of impending problems since no "political/aeconomic tsunamis, no disorders, no elections, no runs on the banks." has happened yet, though I had not suggested it had.
This coming week however may well be decisive.

You're seriously trying to suggest that a reason for the appointment of Gentiloni as PM was NOT because of ' "urgent need for a fully functioning government" to address a series of pressing international, economic and social issues. ' as Gentiloni himself said?
http://www.thelocal.it/20161211/gentiloni-tapped-as-italys-new-prime-minister

Mr Gentiloni, if confirmed, will have to deal with a looming crisis in the troubled banking sector ....

http://news.sky.com/story/paolo-gentiloni-named-as-italys-new-prime-minister-10692233

Please note there is no "salivation" here despite what Quasar would have you believe, merely interested and objective observation.

Quasar

Of course there is an urgent need for a fully functioning government. Isn't that the case for any country? Doesn't every country have pressing internationa, economic and social issues?

As for foreign sites, what I mean are NOT those in English, but the original French, German, Italian newscasts and sites. European sites have a very different approach to news and refrain from gloating doomsday predictions, mindful that every single country today is linked economically to all others (EU or not EU) and therefore also mindful that inaccurate and sensationalistic reporting doesn't serve anyone.

The_Last_Username

Quasar wrote: »

Of course there is an urgent need for a fully functioning government. Isn't that the case for any country? Doesn't every country have pressing internationa, economic and social issues?

As for foreign sites, what I mean are NOT those in English, but the original French, German, Italian newscasts and sites. European sites have a very different approach to news and refrain from gloating doomsday predictions, mindful that every single country today is linked economically to all others (EU or not EU) and therefore also mindful that inaccurate and sensationalistic reporting doesn't serve anyone.

I'm sorry Q but I've been following the Renzi saga, MdP & Unicredit banking sagas too and Italian press does link them to the government.
Reading in Italian where possible - from Italian media.

Your being Italian, I would naturally expect nothing but patriotism for your country from you.
Nothing at all wrong with that.
Commendable in fact.
Please though stop implying that there is nothing newsworthy or troubling in Italian current affairs.
Their media may not be sensationalist or gloating - but they very clearly state the possible dangers just as Jock has said.


http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2016/12/11/monte-dei-paschi-bce-apre-inchiesta-sulla-fuga-di-notizie-la-decisione-sulla-richiesta-di-siena-era-ancora-ufficiosa/3251145/
Says

E si è inevitabilmente intrecciata con la crisi di governo italiana, determinandone un’accelerazione alla luce del fatto che per varare il decreto sul sostegno pubblico all’istituto serve un nuovo esecutivo con pieni poteri.

In English for those non-Italian-speakers (with thanks in this instance to Google Translate):

And it is inevitably intertwined with the crisis of Italian government, determining an acceleration in the light of the fact that to enact the decree on public support the institute needs a new government with full powers.

This is BTW with regards to the ECB investigating leaked information about Monte dei Paschi bank being refused longer to raise 5 billion.

There are (as you must realise) many more such examples but I have no desire to further frustrate readers of this thread who do not speak Italian.
Sadly therefore I must agree with "If people DO read foreign-news sites as you suggest they will soon see just how wrong you are, won't they?" as stated by Jock above.

Quasar

LOL you get that at every Italian reshuffle. Of course a new government is needed when one falls. Isn't that the case everywhere? You are taking a perfectly reasonable statement and using it to support your opinion. You have quoted the problems faced by the hardest hit Italian Bank. It is NOT the same as the doom and disaster predicted in the likes of the Daily Mail, other newspapers and UK MSE armchair experts. Not Not. Not.

However I know when to stop wasting my time and fingertips on keyboard, so by all means continue to predict what you all please. Italy will sail on regardless.

CLAPTON

Quasar wrote: »

LOL you get that at every Italian reshuffle. Of course a new government is needed when one falls. Isn't that the case everywhere? You are taking a perfectly reasonable statement and using it to support your opinion. You have quoted the problems faced by the hardest hit Italian Bank. It is NOT the same as the doom and disaster predicted in the likes of the Daily Mail, other newspapers and UK MSE armchair experts. Not Not. Not.

However I know when to stop wasting my time and fingertips on keyboard, so by all means continue to predict what you all please. Italy will sail on regardless.

how do you expect GDP to change over the next 12 months
and how will unemployment change

The_Last_Username

I am merely supplying what is written in Italian media.
I am not Gypsy Rose Lee and as such I will not make predictions without clearly stating that they are my opinions.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting my (or any other) opinion - it is what is written.
In Italian.
By Italians.
Of course Italy will sail on regardless.
It is the direction of that sailing and the destination which may prove interesting.

Thrugelmir

Quasar wrote: »

The above has NOTHING. NOTHING to do with the EU and is merely an internal matter.

As for Italy having had 60 governments in 70 years, please be informed that most of these "fallen" governments consisted in what over here would be a reshuffling of the cabinet except that also the PM would have changed, appointed by the president, without much further ado. Only on certain occasions an early election has been called.

Meanwhile, Italy has remained one of the major EU economies and weathered countless prediction of disaster and catastrophe.

So you and the majority of your fellow country men are happy with the performance of the Italian economy over the past 10-15 years?

cogito

Quasar wrote: »

PS. The Italian President has now appointed a new PM, Paolo Gentiloni. No political/economic tsunamis, no disorders, no elections, no runs on the banks. Sorry the fun has been spoilt.

Gentiloni will need all the luck he can get bearing in mind what's on his desk for attention from day one.

He's keeping the seat warm for Renzi's return if he lasts long enough.

Thrugelmir

Quasar wrote: »

You have quoted the problems faced by the hardest hit Italian Bank.

Personally I get my news from the reputable reporting services. Let's quote the US press instead then.As I do agree that the Daily Mail's headlines are more to do with selling papers than presenting readers with intelligent well researched articles.

For the charts you'll need to view the article.

Italy's Banking Crisis Is Nearly Upon Us

There is a high degree of probability (approaching 90%, I’d say) that Italy will experience a severe banking crisis in the next few quarters. Perhaps they can stave off the problem for a year, but something will have to be done about the banks.

Italian GDP per person lagging the rest of Europe

Italian citizens haven’t had much fun the past decade, judging from their GDP. You can see on the left side of the chart below that GDP per person has lagged the EU since 1995. Worse, it kept falling after 2009, even as Italy’s neighbors recovered.

This performance stands in stark contrast to Italy’s pre-euro experience. Even though Italy constantly revalued the lira, that revaluation process allowed Italy to grow its GDP in real terms as fast as Germany did for decades. Notice in the graph above that the real drop off in Italian economic performance began shortly after the introduction of the euro in 1999.

Italy was one of the economic miracles of the 1960s and 1970s. The northern part of Italy was a production powerhouse. The region was strong in the design and manufacturing of all manner of products across a whole host of industries. Even banking was strong.

You need to know that Italy is the eighth-largest economy in the world and has issued the third-largest amount of sovereign bonds. And that mountain of sovereign bonds is really the avalanche-in-waiting that an Italian banking crisis will send tumbling down on the rest of the world, because a large percentage of those bonds are outside of Italy—sitting on the books of banks and central banks.

The bar chart on the right above shows the employment rate for people ages 15–64 in various European countries. Italy is second worst on the list, with only Greece having fewer working-age jobholders.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2016/12/08/italys-banking-crisis-is-nearly-upon-us/#6ecb6e592483

mwpt

So what? We're still suffering from the fallout of 2007/2008 and the world wasn't fixed by lowering rates and printing money. Big surprise.

The EU consists of 28 countries. The fact that every now and then one of them experiences difficulty isn't surprising.

South America has several economic basket cases, perhaps you could figure out some way to blame that on the EU too. I would not put it past many of the quitters here.